Custom Dope chart for sfp scope

[young7.3]

I have a 6.5prc that im looking for a scope to match to. Ive heard the big downside to ffp is the crosshairs are very faint on low power for hunting. So im looking at sfp scopes and my concern is the feasibility of doing the math in the moment of the shot and being accurate. Say on half power, the adjustment will be less than at full power, correct? So do guys with sfp scopes have a dope chart that includes alternative power holdover?

For example, for a 4-16 power scope, do you have a column of holdovers for 8, 12, and 16 power levels? Or do you do the math in your head? Im trying to figure out which method is best strictly for hunting.


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[prm]

I know I’d screw that up at crunch time. I just use subtensions at max power (or wherever they are accurate).

 

[Formidilosus]

So im looking at sfp scopes and my concern is the feasibility of doing the math in the moment of the shot and being accurate. Say on half power, the adjustment will be less than at full power, correct? So do guys with sfp scopes have a dope chart that includes alternative power holdover?

For example, for a 4-16 power scope, do you have a column of holdovers for 8, 12, and 16 power levels? Or do you do the math in your head?

That’s a disaster waiting to happen. I’ve seen it done and to say it is a goatfuq is an understatement.

Im trying to figure out which method is best strictly for hunting.

Get a FFP mil/mil scope with a reticle usable at all powers.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

For hunting purposes, if your going to get a SFP scope, get one that doesn’t have such a high magnification range, for example the NXS 2.5-10x42. 10x is a great magnification for hunting out to 600+ yards and your not stuck at using the reticle hash marks for hold overs at some crazy magnification. If your dialed below 10x, your probably shooting at something under 200 yards anyhow and not needing to use the hash marks, unless for wind holds of course.
Is it perfect? No. Nightforce should make the NXS Compact in ffp.


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[LaHunter]

I have a 6.5prc that im looking for a scope to match to. Ive heard the big downside to ffp is the crosshairs are very faint on low power for hunting. So im looking at sfp scopes and my concern is the feasibility of doing the math in the moment of the shot and being accurate. Say on half power, the adjustment will be less than at full power, correct? So do guys with sfp scopes have a dope chart that includes alternative power holdover?

For example, for a 4-16 power scope, do you have a column of holdovers for 8, 12, and 16 power levels? Or do you do the math in your head? Im trying to figure out which method is best strictly for hunting.


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By 'adjustments', if you mean the moa / mil dialing adjustment, then the power of the scope is irrelevant. If the dope is 8 moa, then dial 8 moa and shoot.
If you plan to hold over, or hold for wind, then the reticle subtensions will be different with a sfp scope at less than full power. For sfp scopes, the reticle subtensions are double value when the scope is set at 1/2 power. I would not complicate things any more with 1/4 power or 3/4 power values.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

I made a kill last weekend 28 minutes before sunrise on the west side of a slope looking downhill 160 yards (ie all indirect, refracted light). Swfa ffp milquad reticle worked great, if that deer had stepped out 2 minutes earlier it would still have been an easy shot.

 

[davsco]

an illuminated reticle will remove some of the downsides of ffp scopes at low magnification.

also as noted above, if you get a sfp that maxxes at something like 10x, chances are at any distance where you need to hold over, you'll be at max magnification where the reticle will be accurate.

if you prefer dialing vs holding over then the discussion is mostly moot (other than windage).

 

[Dobermann]

Ive heard the big downside to ffp is the crosshairs are very faint on low power for hunting. So im looking at sfp scopes ...

The better solution is to follow @Formidilosus's advice above, and get a mil/mil FFP scope - one with a good reticle that works at low and high mag - three good options include the Mil-Quad in SWFA scopes, G2, G3 etc series in Bushnell Eite Tactical LRTS and LRHS scopes, and the THLR reticle in the Minox ZP5.

Lots of threads here on those scopes and reticles.

You'll save a lot of time on the math, dialing, and overall shot process.

 

[young7.3]

The better solution is to follow @Formidilosus's advice above, and get a mil/mil FFP scope - one with a good reticle that works at low and high mag - three good options include the Mil-Quad in SWFA scopes, G2, G3 etc series in Bushnell Eite Tactical LRTS and LRHS scopes, and the THLR reticle in the Minox ZP5.

Lots of threads here on those scopes and reticles.

You'll save a lot of time on the math, dialing, and overall shot process.

I'm already familiar with MOA and was going to go with that on the scope I chose. I would much prefer to dial and hold dead on. I think the Trijicon Credo XS 2.5-15x42 fits that bill nicely.

 

[Lawnboi]

A 15x sfp scope is a terrible choice for any dynamic long range shooting imo.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I have a 6.5prc that im looking for a scope to match to. Ive heard the big downside to ffp is the crosshairs are very faint on low power for hunting. So im looking at sfp scopes and my concern is the feasibility of doing the math in the moment of the shot and being accurate. Say on half power, the adjustment will be less than at full power, correct? So do guys with sfp scopes have a dope chart that includes alternative power holdover?

For example, for a 4-16 power scope, do you have a column of holdovers for 8, 12, and 16 power levels? Or do you do the math in your head? Im trying to figure out which method is best strictly for hunting.


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Hunting you say?

Get a SFP scope with exposed elevation turret and zero stop.
Go to range and figure out your DOPE for 300, 400, 500, 600
Use lazer rangefinder to confirm distance to target.
Dial elevation turret according to DOPE.
Hold left or right a little as needed for wind.
Squeeze the trigger

Doesn't matter what magnification your SFP is on. 2X or 100X. For vertical Drop, your DOPE is your DOPE.

Anything more than ~20 inches of wind drift and you are either shooting too far at game anyway for conditions, or you are using an insufficient caliber/load for the job at hand, and you need to get closer.

Love seeing all the folks who want to pick fly shit our of pepper. 99% of game is killed inside of 300 yards anyway, and none of this shit even matters. And for the 1% remaining, the vast majority of that is inside 500 yards.

 

[young7.3]

A 15x sfp scope is a terrible choice for any dynamic long range shooting imo.

Care to elaborate on that statement?

 

[Lawnboi]

Care to elaborate on that statement?

Mostly been outlined above.

Your reticle is only accurate at max power. That means to make any educated hold be it wind or elevation, on a shot where you are under pressure is going to require max power. If you’re shooting on a max power of 15x, your field of view is smaller, spotting your shot is difficult, and tracking the animal post shot is more difficult. Maybe there’s too much mirage at 15x and you need to turn it down, your reticle is now useless.

I could deal with a max of 10 in a sfp scope but it’s not preferred. I would never buy a scope I’m going to shoot long range with in sfp because I am then pigeon holed into max power to make accurate wind holds in a dynamic environment, which shooting at game usually is for most of us.

Moa or mil really dosnt matter as much as the focal plane of the scope. If you like MOA, that’s okay.

Reticle thickness is blown out of proportion. I just shot a coyote at 4x with my ffp nx8 at a time where I wouldn’t legally be allowed to shoot at big game.

Illumination makes it even easier

 

[Stinky Coyote]

What Doc says!

Or, a simple 3-9x40 with sfp, a bc reticle or basic mil dot reticle and you have the local digital post make you some decals to stick on the scope tube to enhance your memory and ensure you reference it before and while hunting. Let’s assume a Trijicon accupoint 3-9x40 green dot duplex or mil-dot duplex. With that cartridge you can zero 250 yards and pretty much mpbr to 300. You could then middle your dope between your low/high elevations and temps and get Kenton to spin you up a speed dial turret for dial up.....or for the mil-dot you get another hundred yards so here's how things would look for 4000' and 41 degrees f and 2930 fps for the 143gr eld-x factory (22" barrel assumption).

9x-Yrd-5mph
1-400-4"
2-535-7"
3-655-11"
4-765-15"
5-870-20"

Get that decal about 3/4" wide and 1" long, black with white bold letters, slap it on the scope tube beside the turret block. Have several sizes made at once and they typically give you 5 of each size as you pay minimum for print anyway. The 9x is to remind you to dial up to 9x. The Trijicon mil-dot gives you 4 mil dots below crosshair and post thickening is 5th mil. May as well have it for fun practice and lobbing at steel/coyotes, you'll be living in mpbr to the first couple dots almost exclusively on big game.

If you forgo the mil-dot and just go duplex and dial up with Kenton speed dial, your turret with 250 yard zero will get you to just over 700 yards (accupoints only do 12 moa per rotation, which is more than enough). Then you do up a decal for wind only that looks like this.

Yrd-5mph
400-4"
500-6"
600-9"
700-12"

You could get the mil-dot and Kenton speed dial for some redundancy and play with both. If you find a return to zero issue just stick to the mil-dot.

I'm currently running the mil-dot and dial up redundancy on a very slow 16" barrel 6.5 Grendel 123 eld-m launching only 2386 fps and here's what my set up looks like. I get to a little over 500 with a 200 yard zero on this slow poke on dial up and over 600 on the reticle holds but I've learned the difference between target world and hunting. Also, my wind is in 10 kmh increments (Canadian thing), 6.2 mph, but I live in yards for distance. I don't need any reminders about how many mils I have below the crosshair so I simplify my decal to bare minimum, I don't need to be reminded to dial up to 9x magnification either. I know you dial either the turret or the mag ring...you dial no matter what. Also fyi, on 9x the illuminated dot covers about 4-5" at 425 yards, it was wonderful on whitetails out to 420 yards so far no prob.


p.s. some guys have figured out that hunting and target worlds are two completely different things and have a rifle for each, just sayin, you're hamstringing yourself trying to make the target world stuff work for hunting

And here's the duplex dot from the 3-9x40 accupoint at 425 yards on a 15" gong. I have the mil-dot now but same dot in the middle.

 

[Mojave]

Some interesting thoughts and good ideas in here.

1. first your dial power adjustment should have one spot that has a star or something identifying it as the place the reticle subtensions are set up to use. It might or might not be at max power.

2. There are reticles like the THLR in the Minox, Vortex XLR, and Vortex HSR, and Gunwerks reticles that have German heavy T post designs and are meant to be used at any distance. Vortex offers one of these in a 2nd focal plane.

3. You are going to want to dial for elevation at distance. Using hold overs is stupid, it doesn't allow for actual corrections. It is a guessing game and if you have a shot that is 382 how do you hold for that? Do you hold 400 and shoot over it, or hold 350 and shoot under it. No reticle based "holding for elevation" system will give you 100% shot repeatability like dialing for elevation.

4. As suggested above you should absolutely use a MIL reticle with MIL dials and a first focal plane system. Why? Well it is a simple system, because there is no focal plane subtension confusion that can happen if you don't have your power dial set on the actual calibrated subtension power.

You point your LRF at a target 662 yards away, your LRF is set up to give you straight linear distance not the hypotenuse distance so elevation hold overs don't matter. The Leupold BRX 1600 does this, and most newer LRFs will as well (but it must be set up in the menu).

Then using a ballistic solver (or a piece of tape, or log book) you dial the 4.58 mills to 662 yards. If you are using a good one, and you really want to geek out on it you can throw in estimated wind, spin drift, coralis, and weather. 662 shouldn't require all that, but it will at 800-1200 or so when things get transonic.

The only reason to not dial for distance is if you have a really cheap optic. Something made in China or the Phillipines. Then you need to work out what those subtensions mean in a ballistic solver and then true the data by shooting it. Known in the long range world as DOPE (data on previous engagement).

You must true your data to build DOPE. Even if you buy a custom rifle with a $4500 Schmidt Bender and pay for the Kestral ballistic solver and all the other schenanigans. You must prove your ammunition is shooting where you think it is at multiple ranges.

We are lucky I have a 1000 yard range 40 miles away and a 400 yard range at my house. I work out dope all the time when I change something.

Your ballistic solver (you can download one on your phone) or buy a Kestrel that can do atmospherics) must be trued to your data.

 

[davsco]

3. You are going to want to dial for elevation at distance. Using hold overs is stupid, it doesn't allow for actual corrections. It is a guessing game and if you have a shot that is 382 how do you hold for that? Do you hold 400 and shoot over it, or hold 350 and shoot under it. No reticle based "holding for elevation" system will give you 100% shot repeatability like dialing for elevation.

i'll disagree with this. i almost always hold over in both PRS (1000+yd matches) and hunting and did so with my two elk a few years back at 200 and 400yds, not that those are really long distances. holding over is a lot quicker and you keep your focus thru the scope vs spinning and reading a dial on top. that said i know at least some prefer dialing. and certainly if you don't have a relatively precise reticle you'll prob want to dial.

 

[Formidilosus]

you keep your focus thru the scope vs spinning and reading a dial on top.

When talking a single realistic sized (12”) target from 300 to 800 yards- what is your time difference to hit holding elevation and wind, versus dialing elevation and holding wind?

 

[Rifles And More]

I have a 6.5prc that im looking for a scope to match to. Ive heard the big downside to ffp is the crosshairs are very faint on low power for hunting. So im looking at sfp scopes and my concern is the feasibility of doing the math in the moment of the shot and being accurate. Say on half power, the adjustment will be less than at full power, correct? So do guys with sfp scopes have a dope chart that includes alternative power holdover?

For example, for a 4-16 power scope, do you have a column of holdovers for 8, 12, and 16 power levels? Or do you do the math in your head? Im trying to figure out which method is best strictly for hunting.


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The idea that you'd take a snap shot at a distance that requires the hold over is iffy at best.
If you have time to read a chart, you have time to turn the magnification up to the usable range for hold over.

My hunting rig has a 3-10 SPF with the mil-reticle. In open country I'm walking around on 10X. When I'm in the timber, 6X is my preferred setting.

Also, MPBR takes a lot of the guess work out. Some don't like it, some do. It has never treated me wrong.

 

[davsco]

When talking a single realistic sized (12”) target from 300 to 800 yards- what is your time difference to hit holding elevation and wind, versus dialing elevation and holding wind?

for me, holding over is quicker and i'm staying on the target or animal thru the scope. can't say how much quicker but it is quicker, at least for me. as i get older i have a harder time reading the dial, esp if darker or in a blind etc, to that makes the holding even quicker v dialing.

people should play around and see what works best for them. as i said, the reticle you use will play into the equation.

 

[Formidilosus]

for me, holding over is quicker and i'm staying on the target or animal thru the scope. can't say how much quicker but it is quicker, at least for me.

That’s why I asked, either you do not know how to turn a turret (I.E.- you don’t 19 clicks instead of ripping it as fast as possible to 1.9 mils, for instance), which I doubt is the case; or you “feel” that it is faster to hold than dial. Unequivocally it is faster to hit a realistic sized target (not faster to shoot) dialing elevation and holding wind, than it is to hold in the reticle.

Feelings lie. Everyone feels that they are faster holding elevation and wind than they are dialing. When actually measured for speed and hit rates in the field from differing positions, under stress, breathing heavy, etc., that never shows.


Time yourself getting into various position in the field with wind and a bit of stress and hitting 8-12” targets both dialing and holding elevation.

as i get older i have a harder time reading the dial, esp if darker or in a blind etc, to that makes the holding even quicker v dialing.

That is an issue that can make using the reticle better, or the lessor of two evils. However, a better choice is a turret with bolder markings or a flip up magnifier for the turret.