Current CPW commissioners promoting proposition 127 with lies.

Bluumoon said:
I've been busy... Letters to the Editors of the major state papers, every single CPW commissioner. I'm pissed off and have free time..
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Thank you, sir. I’m an AZ resident, any chance out of state letters, emails, etc. are warranted? Not sure how that would be received by Commissioners. If not I’ll stick with monetary support and outreach to friends in CO.
 
CouesFlagAZ said:
Thank you, sir. I’m an AZ resident, any chance out of state letters, emails, etc. are warranted? Not sure how that would be received by Commissioners. If not I’ll stick with monetary support and outreach to friends in CO.
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Send an email. It is beneficial
 
Fellas, Colorado is a lost cause. It's the new California. Wolverines are next on the reintroduction list. What do you suppose that'll do to hunting the high country wilderness, logging, snowmobiling, ranchers running cattle in the high country. It ain't gunna end until they have thier way. Liberals come up with the money to get thier way
 
Sykes said:
Fellas, Colorado is a lost cause. It's the new California. Wolverines are next on the reintroduction list. What do you suppose that'll do to hunting the high country wilderness, logging, snowmobiling, ranchers running cattle in the high country. It ain't gunna end until they have thier way. Liberals come up with the money to get thier way
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Not lost yet but it’s getting close. The Commissioners who came out to publicly support the ban must know they are taking a serious risk but they’ll certainly be protected by the Governor. Seems like this could be a desperate, last ditch move to stop our momentum? Probably wishful thinking on my part.
 
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Bluumoon said:
Current CPW commissioners wrote an opinion piece published in the Durango Herald and I suspect elsewhere. The pro prop 127 piece by the commissioners is a disgrace and should disqualify them from public service. The piece is filled with false, intentionally misleading information, and blatant lies (19 by my count, plus implying they represent the whole commission). The second picture is an ad members here helped pay for and was published in the same paper.
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We already know how this will go down…

AG - you can’t do that.

Commission POS - oh sorry, I won’t do it again
 
OP, thanks for calling this out. You mentioned there were 19 lies in the article. It would be a real big help if someone could call out which parts are false so that people like myself can start to understand the facts.

Yelling “this is all a lie” without providing any more detail doesn’t help us decipher between facts and propaganda.
 
accountantsanonymous said:
OP, thanks for calling this out. You mentioned there were 19 lies in the article. It would be a real big help if someone could call out which parts are false so that people like myself can start to understand the facts.

Yelling “this is all a lie” without providing any more detail doesn’t help us decipher between facts and propaganda.
Click to expand...

Here are 19 statements that I believe to be untrue and/or misleading, in order, as I read through the article (this list originally ended with 22 items, but I removed the ones that I felt were most strongly based in opinion from one side or another):
  1. Hunting is unscientific abuse and exploitation of wild cats
  2. Cat hunting in no way contributes to ethical outdoor recreation
  3. Cats are hunted by dogs, not humans
  4. Hunters use drones to aid them
  5. Wildlife has nowhere to run and no chance to survive
  6. Success is 100% guaranteed for a "trophy Tom"
  7. Cats are not involved in any human conflict
  8. Trapping exposes bobcats to brutal, sub-zero weather...implying they don't live in those conditions if not trapped
  9. Trappers choke caged animals to death slowly
  10. Cat hunting is a state-sanctioned act of cruelty
  11. Cat hunting does more harm than good
  12. Supporters of lion hunting are the "loudest, extreme voices"
  13. Lions target mule deer with CWD
  14. Lions can make a meaningful impact in removing CWD from the environment
  15. Mountain lion hunting serves mountain lion hunters alone
  16. Cat hunting is not managing populations
  17. Hunting lions increases human-lion conflict
  18. Livestock depredations are strongly associated with lion hunting
  19. Lion populations will not increase without hunting
I think most of the factual information one would need to dispute most of these claims can be found in this release from CPW:

CPW Bobcats, Mountain Lions, and Lynx

The regs will show that use of drones is illegal, and that traps must be checked at least daily. If lions are making a meaningful impact against CWD, why has a stable lion population allowed CWD to increase and spread rather than the opposite? If cat hunting is not managing populations, why does the tag quota change based upon prior years harvest and population statistics, and why are populations stable under this practice?

Many of the statements and claims are the opinions of the authors, and providing a dissenting opinion does not necessarily remove all doubt and disprove them. The people in support of proposition 127 are largely a group of outsiders making judgements about people who participate in activities they don't, and don't care to understand.

I posted about prop 127 on NextDoor. My post was very similar to OP's ad, including CPW, HOWL, and CRWM links. I got many replies from people simply stating "I am voting yes" who weren't willing to engage or debate, one person that told me my sources weren't reputable, one person saying hunting is for subsistence and you can't eat cat, and one person saying we need to protect the poor innocent kitties. The comments I got agreeing to vote no were largely "damn liberals" and stuff like that...not helping to change any minds.

Hunters and outdoorsman must take on the opposition's willingness and enthusiasm to share our beliefs and inform those outsiders as to what these activities actually entail and provide the scientific data that shows the facts that we do have. Talking about it in our own circles isn't enough.
 
intunegp said:
Here are 19 statements that I believe to be untrue and/or misleading, in order, as I read through the article (this list originally ended with 22 items, but I removed the ones that I felt were most strongly based in opinion from one side or another):
  1. Hunting is unscientific abuse and exploitation of wild cats
  2. Cat hunting in no way contributes to ethical outdoor recreation
  3. Cats are hunted by dogs, not humans
  4. Hunters use drones to aid them
  5. Wildlife has nowhere to run and no chance to survive
  6. Success is 100% guaranteed for a "trophy Tom"
  7. Cats are not involved in any human conflict
  8. Trapping exposes bobcats to brutal, sub-zero weather...implying they don't live in those conditions if not trapped
  9. Trappers choke caged animals to death slowly
  10. Cat hunting is a state-sanctioned act of cruelty
  11. Cat hunting does more harm than good
  12. Supporters of lion hunting are the "loudest, extreme voices"
  13. Lions target mule deer with CWD
  14. Lions can make a meaningful impact in removing CWD from the environment
  15. Mountain lion hunting serves mountain lion hunters alone
  16. Cat hunting is not managing populations
  17. Hunting lions increases human-lion conflict
  18. Livestock depredations are strongly associated with lion hunting
  19. Lion populations will not increase without hunting
I think most of the factual information one would need to dispute most of these claims can be found in this release from CPW:

CPW Bobcats, Mountain Lions, and Lynx

The regs will show that use of drones is illegal, and that traps must be checked at least daily. If lions are making a meaningful impact against CWD, why has a stable lion population allowed CWD to increase and spread rather than the opposite? If cat hunting is not managing populations, why does the tag quota change based upon prior years harvest and population statistics, and why are populations stable under this practice?

Many of the statements and claims are the opinions of the authors, and providing a dissenting opinion does not necessarily remove all doubt and disprove them. The people in support of proposition 127 are largely a group of outsiders making judgements about people who participate in activities they don't, and don't care to understand.

I posted about prop 127 on NextDoor. My post was very similar to OP's ad, including CPW, HOWL, and CRWM links. I got many replies from people simply stating "I am voting yes" who weren't willing to engage or debate, one person that told me my sources weren't reputable, one person saying hunting is for subsistence and you can't eat cat, and one person saying we need to protect the poor innocent kitties. The comments I got agreeing to vote no were largely "damn liberals" and stuff like that...not helping to change any minds.

Hunters and outdoorsman must take on the opposition's willingness and enthusiasm to share our beliefs and inform those outsiders as to what these activities actually entail and provide the scientific data that shows the facts that we do have. Talking about it in our own circles isn't enough.
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You hit pretty much the same 19 points I did. In addition I identified the phone app for tracking dog as I believe its mostly GPS units at this time, they are implying some how phone apps are being used to a magical advantage. I did not include that they are implying the represent the entire CPW commission, which depending on how you read it they are.
 
intunegp said:
Here are 19 statements that I believe to be untrue and/or misleading, in order, as I read through the article (this list originally ended with 22 items, but I removed the ones that I felt were most strongly based in opinion from one side or another):
  1. Hunting is unscientific abuse and exploitation of wild cats
  2. Cat hunting in no way contributes to ethical outdoor recreation
  3. Cats are hunted by dogs, not humans
  4. Hunters use drones to aid them
  5. Wildlife has nowhere to run and no chance to survive
  6. Success is 100% guaranteed for a "trophy Tom"
  7. Cats are not involved in any human conflict
  8. Trapping exposes bobcats to brutal, sub-zero weather...implying they don't live in those conditions if not trapped
  9. Trappers choke caged animals to death slowly
  10. Cat hunting is a state-sanctioned act of cruelty
  11. Cat hunting does more harm than good
  12. Supporters of lion hunting are the "loudest, extreme voices"
  13. Lions target mule deer with CWD
  14. Lions can make a meaningful impact in removing CWD from the environment
  15. Mountain lion hunting serves mountain lion hunters alone
  16. Cat hunting is not managing populations
  17. Hunting lions increases human-lion conflict
  18. Livestock depredations are strongly associated with lion hunting
  19. Lion populations will not increase without hunting
I think most of the factual information one would need to dispute most of these claims can be found in this release from CPW:

CPW Bobcats, Mountain Lions, and Lynx

The regs will show that use of drones is illegal, and that traps must be checked at least daily. If lions are making a meaningful impact against CWD, why has a stable lion population allowed CWD to increase and spread rather than the opposite? If cat hunting is not managing populations, why does the tag quota change based upon prior years harvest and population statistics, and why are populations stable under this practice?

Many of the statements and claims are the opinions of the authors, and providing a dissenting opinion does not necessarily remove all doubt and disprove them. The people in support of proposition 127 are largely a group of outsiders making judgements about people who participate in activities they don't, and don't care to understand.

I posted about prop 127 on NextDoor. My post was very similar to OP's ad, including CPW, HOWL, and CRWM links. I got many replies from people simply stating "I am voting yes" who weren't willing to engage or debate, one person that told me my sources weren't reputable, one person saying hunting is for subsistence and you can't eat cat, and one person saying we need to protect the poor innocent kitties. The comments I got agreeing to vote no were largely "damn liberals" and stuff like that...not helping to change any minds.

Hunters and outdoorsman must take on the opposition's willingness and enthusiasm to share our beliefs and inform those outsiders as to what these activities actually entail and provide the scientific data that shows the facts that we do have. Talking about it in our own circles isn't enough.
Click to expand...
In regards to your #13, there are a number of published studies supporting this.
Here's the oldest known example

Mountain lions prey selectively on prion-infected mule deer - PMC

The possibility that predators choose prey selectively based on age or condition has been suggested but rarely tested. We examined whether mountain lions (Puma concolor) selectively prey upon mule deer (Odocoileus hemionus) infected with chronic ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
WyoBC_99 said:
In regards to your #13, there are a number of published studies supporting this.
Here's the oldest known example

Mountain lions prey selectively on prion-infected mule deer - PMC

The possibility that predators choose prey selectively based on age or condition has been suggested but rarely tested. We examined whether mountain lions (Puma concolor) selectively prey upon mule deer (Odocoileus hemionus) infected with chronic ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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That study shows that lions are more likely to kill infected deer than human hunters. It also states that deer killed by vehicles have similar odds of having CWD as deer killed by lions...surely we agree that isn't targeted?

I'm not disputing that lions kill some deer with CWD, but I do not think they would pass a healthy deer to go find one with CWD. It's not like they pick and choose...it just so happens to be that way.
 
At least when a hunter kills a CWD deer there is a chance the portions of the carcass containing the prions are removed from the natural environment. None of the lions I know dispose of their carcasses.
 
Dos Perros said:
At least when a hunter kills a CWD deer there is a chance the portions of the carcass containing the prions are removed from the natural environment. None of the lions I know dispose of their carcasses.
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Probably a negligible difference though, considering there is a high probability the entrails and/or part of the spinal cord are left behind by hunters.
 
I think the problem is there is an implication the a mtn lion hunting ban will have any effect over all or be a solution on CWD. CPW believes current management practices provide the most stable lion populations. Also, targeted removal of male lions may actually increase over all lion numbers.
 
Bluumoon said:
All right guys action items

Please contact the CO attorney general (through the official website) and [email protected] to alert them of this issue.

Below is what I sent AG

I would like to notify the Attorney General that sitting CPW commission members Jack Murphy and Jessica Beauliue are publishing opinion pieces (Durango Herald 10/13/2024) promoting Proposition 127. The opinion piece is full of false and misleading information (19 separate falsities) as well as implying that they represent the entire commission in asking voters to vote YES on proposition 127. Please take immediate action
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I have done both. Thanks for bringing this up.
 
WyoBC_99 said:
In regards to your #13, there are a number of published studies supporting this.
Here's the oldest known example

Mountain lions prey selectively on prion-infected mule deer - PMC

The possibility that predators choose prey selectively based on age or condition has been suggested but rarely tested. We examined whether mountain lions (Puma concolor) selectively prey upon mule deer (Odocoileus hemionus) infected with chronic ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Click to expand...
#14 is the only one that matters and going from #13 to #14 is big leap. Is there anything to back that up besides wishful speculation?
 
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