Creedmoor for Brown Bear Hunt

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

FWIW (probably not much) from what I've seen on Alaska TV shows, it seems that mil surp items are very popular and available. Old open sight Mosin Nagants, ARs, AKs, and SKS, seem to be very normal for natives/residents. Mossberg 500 and Rem 870 also seem to be popular which makes sense. Since everything seems to be quite expensive up there, I assume "premium" ammo for said rifles is also ridiculously expensive, true?

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Yeah you’re right. There’s a gun shop on the corner of every native Alaskan village. Right next to the McDonalds and in the same strip mall as the Bass Pro Shops where they can get all the ammo they want.

Gimme a break. Big, small or whatever. They use what they have access to in their family. If that happens to be .223 or 7.62x39 and a rickety mil surp AK 47, that’s what they use. My point is, they don’t hunt with gun A or gun B because of ballistic advantages. And I will certainly agree with you that the tactics at play (spray and pray) are far more troublesome than cartridge choice, but coincidentally .223 and 7.62x39 tends to go hand in hand with such tactics.

You’ll be shocked to learn that even those natives (that you know so much about) often go into bigger towns for medical, family and shopping trips. This isn’t the 1800s. On any given day, people come and go from villages all over the state.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

FWIW (probably not much) from what I've seen on Alaska TV shows, it seems that mil surp items are very popular and available. Old open sight Mosin Nagants, ARs, AKs, and SKS, seem to be very normal for natives/residents. Mossberg 500 and Rem 870 also seem to be popular which makes sense. Since everything seems to be quite expensive up there, I assume "premium" ammo for said rifles is also ridiculously expensive, true?

The only military surplus firearms I’ve seen in Alaska were:
-on TV
-in gun shops
-part of large collections

It’s not like many guys are out there with a mossn nagant and I’ve never seen an sks in person (here)

I’m out of this thread, watching people who have never been to Alaska talking about what “natives” do is extremely lame.

 

[archer65]

No guide is going to be allowing that… No resident I know would purposely under gun themselves on a dedicated coastal brown bear hunt… Are these even real questions from bear hunters or just folks day dreaming that’ll never actually be in that position? Same for the mysterious keyboard experts that claim they’d use a 223 cal rifle when they live thousands of miles from the nearest brown bear. If you really live that life you don’t ask for internet opinions you just bring the whatever the adequate gun you’re comfortable with is

You are correct most outfitter want nothing less than a 338 Win Mag, at the SCI show I asked multiple outfitters what their min caliber was for a brown bear / grizzly hunt and the 338 Win was it and most want 375 and the majority of guides run only control feed actions in 375 for their weapon.

I laugh at most of these comments as the majority of hunters on here have never seen a Kodiak Brown bear up close.

 

[YaakRiver]

You are correct most outfitter want nothing less than a 338 Win Mag, at the SCI show I asked multiple outfitters what their min caliber was for a brown bear / grizzly hunt and the 338 Win was it and most want 375 and the majority of guides run only control feed actions in 375 for their weapon.

I laugh at most of these comments as the majority of hunters on here have never seen a Kodiak Brown bear up close.

A brown bear is made of fur, hide, bone, muscle and organ tissue. A quick search on YouTube revealed that a fair number of Kodiak and/or coastal brown bears are killed with archery tackle. Considering that a 6.5 CM would do significantly more damage than any broadhead, it's safe to assume that the with the right bullet, even 6mm CM, 6 ARC, even a .223 are all more than adequate for complete circulatory and/or nervous system disruption. It's the responsibility of the hunter to execute a well placed shot on the vitals.

It should be noted that there is a difference between the cartridge being used by the hunter and the cartridge being used by the guide for defense. The outfitter that my son works for on Admiralty Island has his guides carry a .45-70 to back up clients on bears at close range.

 

[SDHNTR]

People comparing bullets to archery are obviously not bow hunters.

 

[YaakRiver]

People comparing bullets to archery are obviously not bow hunters.

Except I've killed plenty of elk, deer and a black bear with a bow . . . and have guided many clients to do the same.

 

[YaakRiver]

I'm not trying to be argumentative - my experience, with a large sample size of clients, has been that the hunters who shoot milder recoiling rifles are significantly more likely to execute a well placed shot on game, than those who bring heavy recoiling rifles. With the majority of my clients, as the recoil and cost of a given cartridge decreases, the frequency of their practice prior to the hunt increases. Familiarity and confidence in the weapon system makes a massive difference in my experience.

This is further borne out by a 2017 study by the US Army Research Lab which found that accuracy significantly degrades as recoil increases when comparing the 5.56mm to 7.62mm platforms.

I also think that it is reasonable to assume that if a broadhead, which only damages the small amount of tissue that the blades contact, can cause a brown bear to exsanguinate, a well constructed bullet traveling at or above the minimum speed required for adequate terminal performance, will cause more tissue damage than a broadhead.

 

[schmidty3]

A brown bear is made of fur, hide, bone, muscle and organ tissue. A quick search on YouTube revealed that a fair number of Kodiak and/or coastal brown bears are killed with archery tackle. Considering that a 6.5 CM would do significantly more damage than any broadhead, it's safe to assume that the with the right bullet, even 6mm CM, 6 ARC, even a .223 are all more than adequate for complete circulatory and/or nervous system disruption. It's the responsibility of the hunter to execute a well placed shot on the vitals.

It should be noted that there is a difference between the cartridge being used by the hunter and the cartridge being used by the guide for defense. The outfitter that my son works for on Admiralty Island has his guides carry a .45-70 to back up clients on bears at close range.

I aint saying its wrong. But man every 4570 or equivelent type wound ive seen was just about a clean hole.

I honestly think id rather have a fighting gun. 30 rounds of something I can place rapidly.

 

[schmidty3]

I'm not trying to be argumentative - my experience, with a large sample size of clients, has been that the hunters who shoot milder recoiling rifles are significantly more likely to execute a well placed shot on game, than those who bring heavy recoiling rifles. With the majority of my clients, as the recoil and cost of a given cartridge decreases, the frequency of their practice prior to the hunt increases. Familiarity and confidence in the weapon system makes a massive difference in my experience.

This is further borne out by a 2017 study by the US Army Research Lab which found that accuracy significantly degrades as recoil increases when comparing the 5.56mm to 7.62mm platforms.

I also think that it is reasonable to assume that if a broadhead, which only damages the small amount of tissue that the blades contact, can cause a brown bear to exsanguinate, a well constructed bullet traveling at or above the minimum speed required for adequate terminal performance, will cause more tissue damage than a broadhead.

Ive never seen an arrow beat a bullet . That's a ridiculous thought that guy has.

This is the best ive seen. And its only that bad because the arrow snapped and the daysix head zig tagged around as he ran.

A 6.5 would've turned all that into liquid.

 

[gbflyer]

To answer the question from post 1: no one.


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[YaakRiver]

I aint saying its wrong. But man every 4570 or equivelent type wound ive seen was just about a clean hole.

I honestly think id rather have a fighting gun. 30 rounds of something I can place rapidly.

6 ARC