CPW meeting in Durango recap

[Poser]

What type of trails are these? Are they MVUM trails? OHV trails?

All kinds. In the wilderness area, they are non mechanized. Most are hike/bike/horse and some are dirt back singletrack, others are ORV, particularly around Silverton.

 

[Poser]

What comments were being made about the wolves?
Asking for a friend.

“What about wolves”
“What’s your plan for wolves”
“Why do people want wolves”
“Wy, MT and ID only have 10% of the elk population as they did before wolves and that’s a fact”
“Why won’t you talk about wolves”
“Wolves”
“My cousin Johnny said wolves will be an extinction level event....”

Hate to say it, but it was like a baby boomer FB group in real life.

 

[MallardSX2]

haha I'm sure it was.

Thanks.

 

[orionthehunter1]

What type of trails are these? Are they MVUM trails? OHV trails?

All types from hiking to biking to OHV. I believe it was a statewide total of all trails. They also said the state is planning to add another 4,000 miles in the next couple of years.

 

[Tobe_B]

It may not have been clear. I meant that the median age in the room appeared to be 63 years old. The outfitter was likley a bit younger than the median age. “San Juan Sky” or something like that? Are they the ones that access from the end of Missionary Ridhe/Henderson Lake road?

Yep I misread that. Another outfitter I know was there and he’s right about 63-65. I think San Juan Sky is either out at Henderson or the new guy that took over towards Molas area.


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[sneaky]

Median age being 63 says a lot, though. Shows that the younger demographic isn't getting involved like they should be. Almost sounds like you went to a trad archery shoot and CPW showed up.

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[trophyhill]

I'm shocked that NR's are hated so much in CO

All types from hiking to biking to OHV. I believe it was a statewide total of all trails. They also said the state is planning to add another 4,000 miles in the next couple of years.

I hunted central CO last year for a couple weekends. Haven't hunted there since 2011. What used to be a hiking trail along the CD, with hardly any foot traffic, is now full blown cyclist trails that have destroyed habitat and created new trails. The elk are so far removed from this area now and sightings were nil. Very disappointed as this is a limited draw unit and elk "should be" all over this area......

 

[Poser]

I'm shocked that NR's are hated so much in CO


I hunted central CO last year for a couple weekends. Haven't hunted there since 2011. What used to be a hiking trail along the CD, with hardly any foot traffic, is now full blown cyclist trails that have destroyed habitat and created new trails. The elk are so far removed from this area now and sightings were nil. Very disappointed as this is a limited draw unit and elk "should be" all over this area......

Monarch Crest Trail?

 

[trophyhill]

Monarch Crest Trail?

Not at liberty to say

 

[brsnow]

Monarch Crest Trail?

I love riding this trail. We do it each summer, mix in rainbow, great day.

 

[justinspicher]

I am really surprised that nobody mentioned the sheep and cows that are everywhere in 751 during the archery season. That reason alone is why I quit hunting in the archery season. I didn't see a difference in the number of elk or folks out in the woods, it was just hotter and more miserable being out there. I did get upset with the cows, the cow shit and the lack of huntable animals though.

 

[Poser]

I love riding this trail. We do it each summer, mix in rainbow, great day.

I did it two years ago on a day when there was sleet,hail,rain, snow on the alpine section and I loved it. Went back last summer on a bluebird day and I understand the issue. There are just too many bikes on it. I felt particularly bad for the thru hikers getting passed every 10 seconds.

The shuttle service has been limited to 1000 shuttle riders per season (should be used up by the time hunting season gets here) and the FS has threatened to pull their permit multiple times, but I think that its too late to have an effect. The word is out on the MCT and it is a destination for bikes with people coming from all over the country to ride it every weekend. It’s on the same level as the Whole Enchilada in Moab. Even without a shuttle, people will go to the trouble to self shuttle it and the local economy sure loves it. The only solution is for the FS to instate a permit system limiting # of riders per day.

 

[brsnow]

I did it two years ago on a day when there was sleet,hail,rain, snow on the alpine section and I loved it. Went back last summer on a bluebird day and I understand the issue. There are just too many bikes on it. I felt particularly bad for the thru hikers getting passed every 10 seconds.

The shuttle service has been limited to 1000 shuttle riders per season (should be used up by the time hunting season gets here) and the FS has threatened to pull their permit multiple times, but I think that its too late to have an effect. The word is out on the MCT and it is a destination for bikes with people coming from all over the country to ride it every weekend. It’s on the same level as the Whole Enchilada in Moab. Even without a shuttle, people will go to the trouble to self shuttle it and the local economy sure loves it. The only solution is for the FS to instate a permit system limiting # of riders per day.

Slippery slope you are recommending

 

[OkieElk]

Poser, great report and I loved the hint of sarcasm. Love SW Colorado. I hope the make decision that’s good for elk long term and for the outdoorsmen.


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[Lumpy]

As a resident I do like being able to bounce around units on both the archery and the second/third rifle seasons...it's nice during archery to hunt locally during the week mornings and evenings. Then kind of food a destination hunt for a longer weekend....also for rifle it's nice to go to the almost obligatory hunting grounds you grew up hunting with multiple generations even though no one ever gets anything and then you can come home and finish out the last few days with a glimmer of hope in you local backyard unit....maybe the way Montana does it could be a model. Limited number of General Tags but lots of general areas they are good in.

 

[txhunter581]

"However, the $2K that you spent over 3 years is not even a drop in the bucket to the amount of money other tourists would spend even just over a weekend.

I don’t mention that to start an argument, I mention it because I don’t think the dollars non-resident hunters add to the 4 corners region economy mean as much now in comparison to all the other dollars visitors spend on recreation in the area."

As mentioned, many NRs will spend summer vacation too in the area they hunt. I personally own a cabin in CO and come up there 3-4 times a year. So, it is not just a hunting thing. But as for NR hunting revenue being a "drop in the bucket", you might want to ask the retailers that depend on us for dollars during the fall when there aren't many "tourists" I Know they would miss us.

And you have panted yourselves into a financial corner. Due to the money generated by NR tags, the CPW can't afford to run many more of us off with higher prices. Most residents tell us we have to "pay to play" and we have. But you might consider that for yourselves. Any changes need to be revenue neutral for CPW. So if you want to go to draw only and limit NRs more, I don't have ANY problem with that, but don't keep pricing us out of the market. It is close to be only a rich mans game, and getting more so every year. Is that really the legacy we want to leave to future generations? But limiting us more would mean you have to raise your own prices substantially, but hey, you got to "pay to play" right?

 

[sneaky]

"However, the $2K that you spent over 3 years is not even a drop in the bucket to the amount of money other tourists would spend even just over a weekend.

I don’t mention that to start an argument, I mention it because I don’t think the dollars non-resident hunters add to the 4 corners region economy mean as much now in comparison to all the other dollars visitors spend on recreation in the area."

As mentioned, many NRs will spend summer vacation too in the area they hunt. I personally own a cabin in CO and come up there 3-4 times a year. So, it is not just a hunting thing. But as for NR hunting revenue being a "drop in the bucket", you might want to ask the retailers that depend on us for dollars during the fall when there aren't many "tourists" I Know they would miss us.

And you have panted yourselves into a financial corner. Due to the money generated by NR tags, the CPW can't afford to run many more of us off with higher prices. Most residents tell us we have to "pay to play" and we have. But you might consider that for yourselves. Any changes need to be revenue neutral for CPW. So if you want to go to draw only and limit NRs more, I don't have ANY problem with that, but don't keep pricing us out of the market. It is close to be only a rich mans game, and getting more so every year. Is that really the legacy we want to leave to future generations? But limiting us more would mean you have to raise your own prices substantially, but hey, you got to "pay to play" right?

Tag prices are going up because of supply and demand. Supply being the number of elk, and demand being the ever increasing number of elk hunters. Would you rather see OTC tags that go up in price? Or, would you rather everything be limited entry and go up in price? I haven't found a single state that charges the same for residents and nonresidents. Anytime I hunt out of state I know I'm going to pay more. That's just the way the game is played. Hunting is a privilege, not a right. Be thankful you can pick any state you want and go.

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[CJF]

"Beyond that, the Q and A quickly devolved into complaints about Non residents, wolves, Mtn bikes, dirt bikes, wolves again, non residents some more, the delusional suggestion of bringing back spring near season, wolves yet again, “why can’t we do it like New Mexico and Arizona?”, revisited data reporting complaints, more complaints about non residents, more questions about why the biologists can’t reinstate spring Bear season with the stroke of pen , and some more about wolves. There were multiple know-it-all’s present. Some of them made rambling comments without questions. Complaints about locals saving for high point units not being able to draw local tags meanwhile the non residents get “all of the tags.” It was suggested that NR elk tags are too cheap and raising the price would run some folks off to other states and that would be good. There was also a bit more cussing than one might expect.

All in all, people seem to want a singular definitive explanation for elk decline and can’t seem to wrap their heads around complex issues. Furthermore, most seem entirely incapable of perceiving complex issues from a perspective other than their own (“I’ve been hunting the same spot for 20 years with a bow I made myself and someone from PA killed all the elk with a fancy bow.”) "
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This is why I didn't go. Thanks for this post, it was a good comical representation of the truth. I'll buy you beer beverage of choice after work one day if your interested.

 

[cnelk]

Tag prices are going up because of supply and demand. Supply being the number of elk, and demand being the ever increasing number of elk hunters. Would you rather see OTC tags that go up in price? Or, would you rather everything be limited entry and go up in price? I haven't found a single state that charges the same for residents and nonresidents. Anytime I hunt out of state I know I'm going to pay more. That's just the way the game is played. Hunting is a privilege, not a right. Be thankful you can pick any state you want and go.

The Den/Boulder CPI increase does now apply to residents tag prices. It used to apply to just NonRes tag prices. The commission has to pass the increase annually, it is not automatic for Residents or NonRes.

A legislative fee increase was just passed, NO LEGISLATORS like to pass fee increases, it makes it harder to get re-elected. The one thing ALL Colorado voters regularly vote against is tax increases and increased fees.