Cot? Sleeping Pad? Or Both?

[corylee4870]

I just came across the Helinox Lite Cot. Looks to be a little over a 1 pound weight penalty vs a pad. My question is, with the helinox cot lite and a 0 degree bag, do I need a sleeping pad for insulation? I'll be using it mostly during archery season around 10-11,000 feet.

 

[todd kelly]

You'll need a pad. 90% of the insulation of your bag will be lost by the weight of your body compressing it. You'll have cold air all night stripping your body heat away.

 

[COlineman78]

A cot has no thermal advantage and might even hurt it due to allowing air that is probably colder than the ground underneath you. You could add an underquilt but now you're at a 2lb weight penalty assuming a 1lb underquilt. If this is acceptable and the added cost doesn't bother you than go ahead. The Therm-a-rest Luxury Lite cot is lighter so you may also want to look at it.

 

[Bubblehide]

I have yet to use one of the ultra-light cots, but I have used plenty of cots in base camps, and pads directly on the ground when backpack hunting. The exact set-up I use really depends on the temps. In cold weather, when using a cot, I also use a pad on the cot; in warm weather, I tend to go with just the cot. When not using a cot, I always use an insulated pad, even in warm weather; but then in warm weather I generally use my sleeping bag like an over quilt. Over the years I've been caught in enough "surprise storms" that have dropped the temps, that I will always carry an insulated pad; but I don't always use a cot. With that said, I do plan on trying out an ultra-light cot, as comfort is becoming more important as my age climbs. Just keep in mind that at the elevations your looking at, even during the heat of the late summer, the nights can get down right cold at times.

 

[Dromsky]

A cot has no thermal advantage and might even hurt it due to allowing air that is probably colder than the ground underneath you. You could add an underquilt but now you're at a 2lb weight penalty assuming a 1lb underquilt. If this is acceptable and the added cost doesn't bother you than go ahead. The Therm-a-rest Luxury Lite cot is lighter so you may also want to look at it.

Cold air circulating under your cot is colder than sleeping on the ground with no pad, so yes you need a pad!

 

[Kevin Dill]

The only way I would ever go without a pad would be knowing I'd have warm nights. I will add that a zero-rated bag is a lot of insulation for just cool weather and it's entirely possible you might be okay without a pad. The proof is definitely in the trying, so I'd say do a trial run for a couple nights. I have a LuxuryLite cot (7 years now) and it's a superb piece of gear. I recently evaluated the Helinox and think it's great but the weight increase makes it a no-go for me.

A good question is "how much pad and what type insulation?"

 

[Brendan]

Pretty sure that the Helinox Lite is lighter than the LuxuryLite - at least per the specs on the websites.

 

[Kevin Dill]

Brendan...I had to check it out to be sure:

The LuxuryLite in a large weighs 3.4# packed. The Helinox Cot One is the comparable size and weighs 4.9# packed.

The Helinox Cot Lite is 2.8# packed and the LL standard size is 2.75# packed.

I use a size large and that's why I remembered the Helinox (Cot One) being substantially heavier than the large-size LuxuryLite. The standard sizes are obviously the same weights and close in size. For reference I pulled those numbers from the Big Agnes and Thermarest websites.

 

[COlineman78]

Pretty sure that the Helinox Lite is lighter than the LuxuryLite - at least per the specs on the websites.

I stand corrected.

Helinox Lite: 2.8lbs (although some places have it listed lower at 2lbs 9oz, but 2.8 is off the BA site)
Luxury Lite UL: 3lb (3.4lbs for large)

Although it's probably within the rounding error as we all know the real world weights are never the same as listed. The LuxuryLite UL however offers a large while the Helinox doesn't so tall folks' feet will be hanging off.

 

[Brendan]

I think we can all agree with the different models, weights are close enough that it comes down to personal preference on ergonomics and sizes.

Back to the original subject, I've never slept as well as I have using cot and pad in cold weather. I had a chance to use the Helinox lite with a thermarest pad sleeping outdoors in 20 degree weather recently, used a 60 degree bag plus a 20 degree quilt and I was toasty warm.

I will be packing in cot and a UL chair to wherever I spike camp this year, and will just bring the pad/quilt with me if there's a chance of bivy'ing out...

 

[corylee4870]

Yea. I was afraid I would need a pad too.
Per the specs the Helinox Lite is lighter than the luxurylite.
I was thinking the cot would be nice if it rained in a floorless shelter.

 

[Ray]

Last fall for my moose hunt on the Tanana I had about 6 days of non stop rain and the lite cot and BA air pad worked out awesome in a floor-less tipi. Most comfortable sleep I've had in years. My back and hip enjoyed it. Being up off the ground kept things cleaner as I tend to roll around a bunch.