Copper only rifle selection.

[Pro953]

I am considering a new rifle but as a California resident/hunter we are pretty much a copper only state now.

The last couple years I have had the opportunity at some long shots at nice bears during my fall black tail hunts. I generally haul a nice light .270 as that is more than enough for the black tails out here in my opinion.

That said I have had the chance to take some long shots at Bears in the last two years that I could not get a stalk on. I am considering picking up something with a a bit more heat behind it.

As this will shoot copper 99 percent of the time anything I need to consider seeing as the bullets tend to be longer and lighter than the lead cousins. Any special considerations to barrel twist or Length. I was figuring I would end up with a 7MM or Win mag but not fixed on any caliber just looked that those two due to the volume of commerical ammo available and I do not reload at this point.

Could not find any writing that addressed this directly so figured I would poll the group here. Any feedback or opinions would be great.

Thanks.


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[mtluckydan]

Look at some of the Cooper rifles for sale on gunbroker. They r using hornady gmx bullets for test targets to get their half moa guarantee. They show bullet weight, brand & powder as well as twist I believe.

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[doverpack12]

Just step down in bullet weight when going with copper over traditional bullets because copper bullets are longer due to the lighter material weight. And in my experience the harder you drive copper the better.

 

[Pro953]

Thanks. I will check out the Cooper’s. I was wondering if I should be looking at something with a faster twist rate seeing that the monolithic’s are light compared to a jacketed bullet.


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[Dirty-D]

I'd go with any caliber that has good wide ranging bullet selection 6.5, 7mm, .308, .338. I've had good luck with Barnes Vor-TX ammo (Either TSX or TTSX bullets, usually loaded pretty hot) in many calibers, my 300 WSM likes the 165's but doesn't like the 150's....

You can rifles chambered all sorts of calibers in those bores with tons of different bullets. Really the difference between a 6.5 Creedmoor and a .338 Win Mag, 26 Nosler, and a .338 Federal. isn't so great that a 7mm Rem Mag or a 30-06 couldn't cover 95% of what the extremes of each round can do. (hint) They are more a like than different and your personal preference/ availability/ what your brother in law shoots should probably be more of a decision point than any set of numbers on a website...

For copper solids, you want to go down in weight. They don't fragment (usually) so adequate penetration is easy to acheive, and they perform better the faster you run them (works with lighter weight concept).

my .308 was shooting 165 gr. federal fusions, I switched to 130gr, Barnes TTSX bullets this year with superb results. Also out to 300 yards, speed trumps the superior ballistic coefficients of heavier bullets in the trajectory/ wind drift department.

I see lots of people making chambering and bullet purchases looking at a 1000 yard ballistic table to kill a deer at 125 yards... know what you need to do and don't waste time on a fantasy =]

The 270 is a great round, but not alot of copper choices there unfortunately.

 

[calico pig]

I am considering a new rifle but as a California resident/hunter we are pretty much a copper only state now.

The last couple years I have had the opportunity at some long shots at nice bears during my fall black tail hunts. I generally haul a nice light .270 as that is more than enough for the black tails out here in my opinion.

That said I have had the chance to take some long shots at Bears in the last two years that I could not get a stalk on. I am considering picking up something with a a bit more heat behind it.

As this will shoot copper 99 percent of the time anything I need to consider seeing as the bullets tend to be longer and lighter than the lead cousins. Any special considerations to barrel twist or Length. I was figuring I would end up with a 7MM or Win mag but not fixed on any caliber just looked that those two due to the volume of commerical ammo available and I do not reload at this point.

Could not find any writing that addressed this directly so figured I would poll the group here. Any feedback or opinions would be great.

Thanks.


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I have the same scenario in Norcal. Never seen a Condor in 42 years. 7 Mag was and is my answer with the Barnes 145 or 168 LRX in an 8 twist. Manufacturer of the rifle is personal preference. the twist is what matters. Send it as fast as possible. Also a 300mag with a 165 ttsx is a decent option to get to 675ish.

 

[Gorp2007]

Tikka T-3 in 30-06 pushing a 168-gr Barnes TTSX worked for me on elk this year.

 

[ReddingArcher]

My Browning 7mm shoots the 160 grain factory Barnes stuff moa or better, I havent tried reloading for it yet but will if I decide to keep it. I'd like to try some of the 140s and see how they do. If your in the Northern California area and are interested I may be willing to sell that rifle as I dont know how often I'll use it anymore.

 

[6mm Remington]

You said that you have a .270 in a nice light rifle. It will work absolutely fine for bears and deer as you have already found out. I would not worry at all about using it on a very large black bear, or an elk. I understand the copper regulations in California. Try some 130 gr. Nosler E-tips in your rifle. I have loaded them for my sons 6mm Remington using the 90 gr. E-tip. He's taken several antelope, a nice mule deer buck, and a large cow elk and has never had to shoot anything twice. By the way his cow was 350 yards away and he drilled her tight behind her right shoulder. The bullet EXITED her left off-side shoulder! She went about 20 yards and tipped over.

130 gr. Nosler E-tip

 

[Pro953]

Thanks Redding sounds compelling but I am a south paw so relegated to the handful of rifles manufactured in left hand.

6MM I appreciate that 270 is adequate with good shot placement and all other things going my way. I guess I am just looking for a bit more insurance.

I will probably be looking at another Tikka I am just torn between the 7MM or 300 Win. I would prefer the 7MM but I am concerned the mag being short could be a issue should I start to hand load for it. With the copper bullets being longer I was not sure if I was better off with the .300 so I can keep the bullet weight up and hopefully not have mag Issues in the future.

Probably overthinking it. But it’s better than thinking about work!


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[brushape]

How far are you looking to shoot is the big question ?


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[jhm2023]

A 7 rem mag would be a great choice. I am currently running 140 gr. TTSX at 3100 fps MV and they routinely group at .6 MOA. That puts my effective range for minimum expansion velocity and energy right around 600. My longest shot was 606 on a big bull caribou and he dropped at the shot. I've shot lots of critters from whitetail to grizz with this load and none make it more than 10 yards. I'll be switching to the 139 LRX here in about a week when my new Cooper backcountry 7 RM gets here. They are supposed to have a minimum expansion velocity of 1600 fps and have a higher BC. If I can get them to group with the same velocity that will push my range out to 800. I wont shoot past 600 but I like the idea of more retained energy when in bear country. You can also find both bullets I mentioned in barnes factory ammo for the 7RM if that matters to you.

 

[jhm2023]

I forgot to mention. Barnes will list the required twist rate on their component bullets packaging and on the website if it is faster than a normal twist for the caliber. So don't get lost in the weeds on twist rate unless you want to go with a heavier barnes bullet.

 

[howl]

They say twist rate is related more to bullet length than weight. I've never tested that. I think if you're feeling restricted in choices for correctly made rifles you're probably not looking hard enough. You can get pretty much anything you want these days.

 

[2five7]

28 Nosler with the 168 LRX would be ideal, .550 BC which is pretty high for a copper bullet. Does require a 1:8" twist so you'd need to find a rifle with that barrel, Brownings new 2018 LR models have 8 twist in their 7mm cailbers. Alternatively, a fast 6.5, shooting the 129 LRX would also work.

 

[TauPhi111]

Seems no one has addressed your twist rate question yet other than 2five7. If you want to shoot heavy monolithics, yes you'll definitely need a faster twist rate. For 7mm, you'll want at least a 1:8 for 168 grain and up monos, 1:9 can probably get you up to the 150-155 grainers. In .308, you can get away with a 1:10 for monos up to around 180 grains, which seems to be the standard 30 cal twist now, but if you want to step up to the 200+ grain monos, get a 1:9.