Copper Mono Success on Big Game

[dårlig jeger]

It seems like we have a _______ success on big game thread for most every caliber, but I am interested in a success thread for copper monos of any caliber/cartridge.

I am interested more and more in shooting copper. I went hunting with a 308 shooting 130ttsx at 3025fps with the idea of keeping shots under 300 yards but haven't been able to connect yet.

So please share any success photos or stories you have when shooting monos on big game.

Thanks!

 

[rookieforever33]

Took a cow elk at 340ish yards with a 300 win mag shooting Barnes 165 TTSX. High lung on the first shot sent shock waves through her I could see in my scope. She staggered and I put one mid body to try and stop her. Next follow up hit her while she was falling down. All 3 passed through. Whole ordeal was about 10 seconds and she died 5 ft from where she stood for the 1st shot. I'm pretty sure shots 2 and 3 were just me keeping busy until she fell.

 

[SDHNTR]

I wouldn’t even know where to start. Been shooting them for decades and have seen thousands of animals fall to them.Rest assured, the load you are considering will work just fine.

 

[rideold]

168 gr TTSX in my 30-06 has been a one shot success for 4 deer in the last 4 years for me. All sub 200 yard shots.

 

[Boreal]

280 AI with 150 grain Stone Hammers has taken three Afognak elk. From 150 to 280 yards. Two fell within steps of where they were, the big bull walked about 50 yards. Pass throughs on the first two, the shank here recovered from the big bull. High lung shot there. Petals did their jobs on the vitals of all three.

Also several Kodiak black tailed deer with 6.5 CM and 124 grain Hammer Hunters. No fragments recovered from them. Generally 100-200 yard shots, and fell within feet.

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[dårlig jeger]

Those hammers are interesting.

I'd love to see any necropsy photos from copper monos.

 

[Boreal]

Those hammers are interesting.

I'd love to see any necropsy photos from copper monos.

I don’t have photos, but two of three elk had basically soup for lungs and a 1.5 to 2” exit. The third elk, a big bull was hit high on lungs. Significant damage to the top of the lungs.


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[ShakoMako]

I have had exceptional success with 308 150 gr trophy copper and 130 TTSX, and 6.8 SPC 95 TTSX over the years at ranges up to 250 yards on eastern whitetail. 3 large bodied bucks in particular stand out in my memory as they all dropped like struck by lightning. One did a backflip and fell dead. I shot a hand loaded 130 TTSX that sheared the top of a buck’s heart at 240 yards last weekend and he was found 10 yds away.

ETA- like OP’s, my 130 TTSX were traveling at 3030 fps out a 20” xbolt.

 

[ElPollo]

It seems like we have a _______ success on big game thread for most every caliber, but I am interested in a success thread for copper monos of any caliber/cartridge.

I am interested more and more in shooting copper. I went hunting with a 308 shooting 130ttsx at 3025fps with the idea of keeping shots under 300 yards but haven't been able to connect yet.

So please share any success photos or stories you have when shooting monos on big game.

Thanks!

I think a thread like this is a really good idea, but I’d really like to see the same kind of post mortem wound channel, distance and impact velocity documentation that the 223, 22cm, 243/6mm, and 6.5 cm threads have. There has been a lot of development in the mono/non-lead world in the last decade or so, but there hasn’t been much in the way of unbiased documentation of performance. It would be great to see that level of discussion on this topic. We’ve had bits of it hear and there, but it would really help to try to bring it under one roof, so to speak.

 

[Igloo]

Certainly not the biggest deer I ever got, but it looks good in the freezer. Forkhorn was taken with a 30-06 175gr LRX over Varget. Accurate load from that stainless Win 70. Quartering toward, 90 yard, hit on point of shoulder, exit through ribs on other side. Nice size holes. Looked about like what conventional SP does. Ran no more than 20 yards. Really more like "a few leaps and fell over". Sorry I don't have any pictures of the insides.

Big doe was a 6.5x55 loaded with a 100gr TTSX over VV N150. High shoulder/spine shot, so of course straight down. Left a nice size exit after going through all the bones involved. About 75 yard.

 

[ElPollo]

280 AI with 150 grain Stone Hammers has taken three Afognak elk. From 150 to 280 yards. Two fell within steps of where they were, the big bull walked about 50 yards. Pass throughs on the first two, the shank here recovered from the big bull. High lung shot there. Petals did their jobs on the vitals of all three.

Also several Kodiak black tailed deer with 6.5 CM and 124 grain Hammer Hunters. No fragments recovered from them. Generally 100-200 yard shots, and fell within feet.

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Next time you kill an elk with these, it would great if you could show us some pictures of what the petals “doing their job” means in terms of tissue damage.

 

[BCsteve]

I've shot several moose with 160gr TSX froma 7mm Rem Mag, 175gr LRX from a .300WSM, 225gr TSX from a .35 Whelen and 250gr TTSX from a. 375 Ruger as well as deer with 120gr TSX amd 120gr TTSX from a .260 Rem. Pretty much the only bullets have been using for the past 20 years. Sure, it might not be a statistically significant number but I've never lost an animal or had one take more than a few steps. I've never had the impression that they were awful killers.

 

[dårlig jeger]

I think a thread like this is a really good idea, but I’d really like to see the same kind of post mortem wound channel, distance and impact velocity documentation that the 223, 22cm, 243/6mm, and 6.5 cm threads have. There has been a lot of development in the mono/non-lead world in the last decade or so, but there hasn’t been much in the way of unbiased documentation of performance. It would be great to see that level of discussion on this topic. We’ve had bits of it hear and there, but it would really help to try to bring it under one roof, so to speak.

This was my thinking. I know it's going to start slow because copper gets a lot of pushback on here, but I'll bet the 223 thread took a while to get rolling too.

New projectiles and performance have potential to shift the paradigm. It flies in the face of the popular thinking around here in the small caliber, match bullet success, but it's not that dissimilar.

1- It starts an uphill battle against lore of old bullet technology that wasn't tremendously effective,
2- It shoots lighter bullets than traditional, i.e., 130 grain 308 win, for reduced recoil,
3- More and more people are open to the idea of shooting copper if it works.

I'm genuinely curious as to the effectiveness of the variety of copper bullets. I'd love to see the same level of necropsy evidence as the 223 thread. I'm hoping to contribute my own, soon.

 

[Boreal]

Next time you kill an elk with these, it would great if you could show us some pictures of what the petals “doing their job” means in terms of tissue damage.

If I have the chance I will. I hope that with an elk down on Afognak Island I can be forgiven for thinking of photos last. There’s toothy big furries to think about.

As a description, we basically poured the lungs out of the first two elk. The lungs were essentially liquified. They were at 125 and 150 yards. With the terminal performance I’ve experienced, and with the ease of working up loads, I always go to Hammer bullets first. I’ve used Barnes and had no complaints with those either.


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[prm]

I’ve had great results with .338 160 and 185 TTSXs. Haven’t had to track an animal yet. Though all have been <~200yds. Internals were soup. 160s start at ~3000, similar to your 130s.
Those 130s should work fantastically.

 

[Forestryguy]

I don't have any experience with monos yet. I will be working with them in my 30-06. Monos are going to catch on IF the alloy cases take off. We should be able to push heavier bullets faster in the same cartridge that we use now. There will not be as much need to drop bullet weight to achieve reliable velocity for expansion. They just did a podcast on Vortex about the .308 loaded with 130 TTSX.

 

[handwerk]

Between my 3 kids and I we’ve shot 45-50 BG animals with Barnes TTSX/LRX and will continue to do so . We don’t shoot much past 400 yards and thus far have had great results.

 

[Macintosh]

Sure I’ll play. This is this years deer. Thirty caliber barnes factory-loaded 168gr TTSX, impact velocity around or a touch over 2600 fps. Deer was trotting briskly down a twitch trail, quartering-to, entry on upper point of shoulder blade, exit out rib cage behind shoulder on opposite side. The deer jumped and hunched at impact, and raced down the trail at full sprint down a very steep hill, piled up about 5 seconds/75ish yards later. Exceptional blood trail despite the relatively high hit.
Entry hole caliber size. Shoulder blade shattered, the bone fragments caused a much larger wound on the entry side than I normally get with these bullets. Entry side hole into the chest cavity is about the same as the exit hole—both about 1.5” round hole. Wound channel through lungs and organs was confined to the few inches around the wound. Im happy with this performance, I actually prefer less damage in order to minimize meat loss.

BTW, the reason there hasnt been a “big caliber wound pic thread” is because no one has ever doubted the efficacy of these cartridges, so there has been no need to show what they do—most of us are already familiar with what happens to an animal hit by a 3006, 300winmag, etc. The other threads exist because people routinely claimed—and still do, a few posts in this thread being prime examples—that smaller cartridges are insufficient, despite being ignorant of actual performance—so photo evidence was necessary to refute the many claims that they couldn't work.


Caliber-sized entry at point of knife
View attachment 866404

Bone fragments from hitting shoulder blade caused some meat loss. This is the inside of the entry-side shoulder.
View attachment 866405

Exit. This is hanging so the hole is elongated, its about a 1.5” round hole.
View attachment 866406

Entry is on upper left between the little crumbs of tallow. Exit is on the right. Both about 1.5” holes.
View attachment 866407

This is the exit side shoulder blade. Bullet did not hit this, photo is just to show how thin it is—literally, its thin enough light passes thru it. No centerfire rifle has any trouble penetrating a shoulder blade.
View attachment 866408

 

[Macintosh]

This from several years ago:

as im learning more about how these things work it seems some (not all) lead bullets do cause more damage with a bigger wound channel, so one should not necessarily expect the animals reaction to be identical. Sounds like it could be an issue in some cases, although Ive never personally seen a situation where I think it would have mattered. I have never had a non-expansion of a copper bullet Or any issue that I think could be a result of bullet performance. what I have experienced is that there is significantly less meat loss with copper, which is very important to me and is the main reason I choose to hunt with it. Below is the sum of my copper experience on live critters.

7mm08 120gr ttsx 195yards, impact velocity about 2450 antelope— high lung hit, bqang flop, 2” exit wound.

7mm08 120gr ttsx 219 yds, impact velocity about 2400 fps, antelope, frontal shot at base of neck, bang flop. Lots of internal damage, exit out rear crease in front of ham.

7mm08 120gr ttsx 168 yards, impact. Velocity about 2550, double lungs from slightly above, antelope. 2” exit wound, ran 60 yards, stood there for 15 seconds or so and tipped over, kicked for a while and took a second shot. It was dead and still fighting, but. Tons of blood so would have been an easy trail.

3006 168 gr ttsx, 60 yards, impact velocity 2650 fps, elk heart shot took out the top of the heart, exited in off side crease. Humped and bucked, ran 10 yards and stopped for a second heart shot, and tipped over backwards and never moved again. Second bullet entrance was 2” from first, but lodged in the off-side shoulder ball joint, perfectly expanded with 96% weight retention. 1st bullet exit hole was about 3/4", internal damage (torn tissue, bloodshot) to heart and lungs extending about 2" around the hole.

3006 168gr ttsx, 110 yards, impact velocity about 2590, whitetail high broadside hit. Dropped on the spot, but was kicking himself in circles. Finished with one shot through breast bone and out spine. Bullet passed through vertebrae and was barely protruding through hide on the outside of the spine, perfectly mushroomed with 95% weight retention.

6.5mb 120 grain trophy copper, 80 yards, impact velocity about 2550, antelope. this was a second shot on an animal that had been hit badly—Antelope rear end was down but front end still up, this shot was hard quartering-to in front of the near shoulder and low, and exiting out high in the rear quarter, took out heart. heart was exploded, couldnt salvage any of it. Exit wound from second shot caused some meat damage to the rear of one backstrap. Roughly a 1.5” exit with an inch or so of damaged meat around it.

also edit-- one I forgot: 30caliber trophy copper, approximately 200 yards, impact velocity approximately 2575fps, pretty big bull elk broadside heart shot. Bull stood up out of bed, was hit, reared on his hind legs and toppled over backward. Full pass through, barely grazed the heart. exit wound was maybe 1"

these are the two copper bullets Ive recovered, as described above--both are 168gr fired from a 30-06. The darker colored one from the elk, the other from the deer.