Consumer Direct VS Pro Shop Knowledge

[straight6archery]

Alright everyone, something has been on my mind for some time now. We see a lot of companies going consumer direct via the internet and it seems to be taking a lot of shops out. Do you think that’s due to poor customer service, product, product knowledge, clean environment, or just as easy as the convenience of it all? As a small shop in MT we have already seen 5 shops close down in surrounding areas just in the last 2 years. That being said, we grew at an astounding 65% rate this year and are expected to grow by 80% in 2019. That’s good and all, we are still seeing companies like Sevre, Day Six arrows, first lite only sell online. Not to mention Gold Tip completely back handing dealers with their Build Your Own Arrow website. What’s your opinion on this? Wouldn’t you guys like to see touch and feel before you buy? Or does it matter to you? Thanks for the feedback!!! We are just trying to be better every single day as business owners and the only way to accomplish that is to wear our heart on our sleeve and dig through the mud. Thanks for reading and don’t be afraid to be honest, it matters a ton!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[robby denning]

I'm a pro-shot guy, I just don't have time to be an expert at everything.

I'd think that if you are the best at Customer Service and you're within decent distance of a population center, you can make it in the business and possibly do very well if much of the competition gets knocked out.

Customer service and by default, trust, are becoming more valuable in this economy imo

I even wrote a blog post on this subject a few years back...Archery Pro-shops—Who Needs 'em? - Rokslide

and I'm currently using Downwind Archery in Idaho Falls.

 

[FURMAN]

For me personally I have gotten to the point were I am capable and prefer to set my own bow up and it is worth it to me to shop around for the best prices on components. To add to that I have found that there really is very little innovation in the industry so I have started buying a lot of used bow stuff. My favorite two bows I have ever shot are a few years old now. My favorite rest has been around for a long time. I am not sure how to help you out as bows are so personal. The internet model is growing.

- - - Updated - - -

I think Robby nailed a key point for some. Time seems to get shorter and shorter every year. If I were to find value in a pro shop it would be a package tuned and ready to shoot with my selected arrows, broad heads, sight, quiver, etc. The problem with this is some guys think a bow needs tuned to them. I disagree and think a bow should be tuned and we should learn to shoot it. Like I said bows are very personal.

 

[theCaptain]

I prefer a pro-shop as well but not necessarily the big box stores, which is what currently surrounds me. As long as the pro-shop prices itself within reason of internet pricing and provides good customer service, they will get my business. I recently spent around $800 this summer upgrading components on my bow and did it at the pro-shop even though i could have saved some money ordering all the parts online.

But...i believe companies like First Lite and the likes recognize that times have changed and brick and mortar stores are harder to keep the doors open and they have just adapted to the market. For me, if i want to wear a higher quality clothing other than what is sold at a Bass Pro, i have to rely on forums like Rokslide for the insight to steer me in the right direction before i order equipment online. My pro-shop options are pretty limited in the Austin area for western hunting gear and i'm forced to resort to the internet.

 

[elkguide]

To me internet sales are like box stores.... you get what you pay for. While box stores may have a lot of things, they generally are not the same quality. Our world is running headlong into convenience and right now with the Amazon model but when the dust settles and you have returned an item three times to get what you needed in the right size, I think there may be some sort of a shift back.

I do my best to buy local. My issue with local shops is that most can't afford to staff them properly. Then you get the attitude that if you don't buy brand X, which is what we sell, you are buying junk. I currently drive an hour and a half to get to a bow shop that I can work with. Quality, knowledgeable and without the attitude staff. They are a multiple brand dealer and will do their best to get what I want even if they aren't a dealer for the product and have been at it long enough to have connections that let them fulfill what most of us want/need. They are invaluable to me. I do not buy everything from them. Their prices are full retail and often times they are unwilling to lower prices on last years models but when they are close to what I can find online, apples to apples, I will buy from them.

Bottom line, service with a smile and a real desire to help the customer goes a long way to make me want to come back and shop there.

 

[Mt Al]

My opinion: for things like bows, sights, arrows, releases, rests, etc, all set up right I'm going to a pro shop period. I'm not knowledgeable enough to do it on my own. If I was, I'd probably buy more on line, but I'm not even close. Also nice, in the pro shop, to get it close enough to take home and fine tune the sights. Same for boots and some clothes. Nice to try it on in a shop to make sure they fit because sending back and forth to a direct-to-consumer company isn't worth my time.

Owner/operator pro shops work best for me vs. absentee owner who hires high school kid with trucker cap and attitude/know it all.

For things that don't require a "pro": flashlight/headlamp/stove/tent/bag/chow, etc, I'll shop on line, direct-to-consumer, Amazon, etc..

Big box or semi-big box with marginal help: waste of time. Sometimes the help is awesome, other times scary bad.

Congratulations to you for your shop's success and I'll stop by if/when I'm in Missoula next (grizz suck!! kidding...not kidding, but kidding). Your success speaks to your ability to work with the customer base. Obviously the limited market is voting with their dollar going to your shop vs. others. IMHO, that's who will last, the authentic, passionate, personable, helpful pro shop where people new to the activity feel welcome to come in and ask stupid questions and experts come to get the best gear. Overhead, inventory, "shrinkage", returns, etc, can kill a shop of any kind. Positive word of mouth advertising is the best asset you can have.

 

[backcountry_hunter]

There is almost no reason for me to go into a proshop/specialty store anymore. I can order online, usually w/ free shipping and not have to worry about anything. I'm not an expert at anything but can generally figure out what I need in a matter of minutes w/ online product reviews. When I did rely on pro shops not that long ago I was at the mercy of what they dealt or decided to sell and at what price. Id often have to go to several stores to test the full gamut of offered products because nobody carried everything. Now I'm at the mercy of the internet and usually get a bottom line cheaper than a pro shop. Through my years, I can typically tell what products will perform for me and really dont need someone 1/3 my age trying to talk me out of brand "x" because their shop deals brand "y" which is obviously better thus making me an idiot.

 

[Pramo]

With YouTube there isn't much you can't do assuming you are mechanically inclined and own a $400 press or even a bowmaster press and an arrow saw. I can't see how the proshop only model sticks around with everything moving online, most educated buyers wait and pick up leftover stock or used.

A good shop is great to have access to especially early on but after 5-10 years playing with bows they don't help since the cost of tools are low and the info is plastered all over the net to tune your own bow.

 

[Ac338]

The nearest pro shop is a 45 minute drive from me and the only one within 100 miles. When I first started out I would drive and pay the price for something I now realize I could do myself and with a lot more attention to detail than I've ever had my areas shop put into it. So the main reasons I bought a press and learned to work on my own bow was to save money and to not have my bow set up in a rushed manner. I can buy a lot nicer equipment waiting for sales online than I can if I go and pay pro shop prices. Im not bashing pro shops, I know there are some great ones out there I just dont have the luxury of having one close to me.

 

[Bulldawg]

It just comes down to money, all the way around. Retails originally designed because there wasn’t information out to the public for all to see, so you would go in and have a salesman show you the next great thing and explain the benefits of said product. Now more information is available online than one person can consume. I think it’s ridiculous for a company to sell to a retailer, it’s easier and more cost efficient to just sell online direct. I don’t want to go to a shop, yeah it’s nice to check somethings out and try clothes on but I don’t need to and it’s not that convenient.

The other thing is it’s not really conceivable for a shop to pay an employee a wage that will make them stick around for a while. Especially somebody who is smart enough to be considered a “pro” usually somebody smart enough to do that doesn’t work for $15 an hour for very long, typically college kids working through school, not a career employee. That was me, I worked a pro shop, and a lot of the guys that would be filtering through didn’t know that much, didn’t have the passion to learn the intricate details, and were off to the next thing once they had made it through school.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[5MilesBack]

I know what I like and don't like, I know what I want, and I can do everything myself. So at that point it all comes down to the best deal I can get. I'll buy local every time if they want to price match, especially now that everyone online charges sales tax.

Back just a few years ago (like 2010) when it seemed that "NOBODY" needed or was shooting stiff arrows like 300's even, our local shop owner sold me some 300's at cost, that he said he couldn't get rid of to save his life. These days it seems everyone is shooting 300's or stiffer. So ya, for the right price, for the right items......I'll buy local. But I don't pay retail for ANYTHING I buy. It's on deep discount or I don't buy it.

 

[Beendare]

Yeah, you are in a tough business. Guys coming in to try stuff...then ordering online to save a buck.

If I were you, I would travel out to Bob Fromme's shop in SD and see how he does it.

I think you have to accept the realities...and adjust your model accordingly. Become more of a service business than a retailer. Your expertise is what you are selling...a valuable commodity. No matter what you have to provide excellent service....if guys want it for free...you don't want them anyway.

So for example....you do something like 2 labor rates; X for working on bows you sold....and 2X for bows purchased online. Provide free shooting lessons for purchases. Spend more time selling your expertise than products.

 

[ElkNut1]

Online purchases for time & convenience! I know what I want & need these days, it's just easier.

Make sure you have an Online Store in conjunction with your brick & mortar establishment & you could have the best of both worlds!

ElkNut/Paul

 

[Btaylor]

A couple of observations I have that may or may not have relevance are that pro shops are important to have around for hunter recruitment. They provide an opportunity for the person that wants to or has just gotten into hunting to see and handle gear as well as ask questions. The other observation is that while I certainly understand the move to consumer direct, I think companies like first lite, kuiu and others going consumer direct are missing an opportunity by not stocking a "for reference" line up with participating shops. They could setup a purchase code for shop customers where orders could be tracked and throw the shop owner a kickback. This would allow people the opportunity to see, feel and try on as a guage for size to order.

 

[16Bore]

Brick and mortar is a thing of the past. Good return policy's and cheap shipping. I believe my brother went through 4 backpacks before finding what he wanted, but never had to leave the house.

Plus high end, niche stuff is tough.

 

[Beendare]

Brick and mortar is a thing of the past. Good return policy's and cheap shipping. I believe my brother went through 4 backpacks before finding what he wanted, but never had to leave the house.

Plus high end, niche stuff is tough.

There is a lot of truth to that comment....but on the other hand....how is someone going to get face to face advice...or shoot their bow with a mentor watching....or participate in a league over the internet?

Its a different business environment for sure....but the shops can still make themselves relevant with more personal service.

How can the internet compete with something like a Father son/daughter night at the range?

 

[Pramo]

Indoor range, leagues and techno hunt are how the shops I go to in the east stay in business. I've seen lots of promotions like kids shoot free with paying adult or they have rental bows for kids to learn the basics. Most experienced bow hunters do the work themselves, the brick and morter shops business is built around the average joe.

 

[Matt W.]

I am with Pramo. Today's Pro Shop, IMHO, needs to be more than just a place to shop. A small local shop is best when it creates a sense of community. Almost like the shops of old... a place to sit around the fire, drink coffee, and visit. A good range, Techno Hunt options, and a warm friendly family environment are key to success. My favorite shop was a hang out; great place to shoot, visit and enjoy archery.

Prices, need to be competitive as well. Nothing frustrates folks more than the perception that the local shop is ripping them off.

 

[jmez]

Convenience, price and generational are driving the online market. Many Xer's, GenY and Millennials don't want to be hassled with going to a store, they click the buy button on their phone. My wife does it all the time. The only store she ever enters is the grocery store occasionally. Returning things that don't fit or aren't quite what she thought is not a hassle for her. Box arrives, leaves the next day and another comes 2 days later. The reality is the younger people would sit on their couch and order something online that they could walk across the street and buy.

I think going forward, niche markets will be the only Brick and Mortar left and even those will be tough to keep going. There is a bit of personal feel to buying bows but not really for anything else in a pro shop. If bows were available online then guys are going to come in, shoot them and then order from home.

I don't use a Pro Shop for anything other than a bow purchase. I order all my accessories, and do all my own work at home. I would order my bows online if they were available. I know what specs I like, I don't need to shoot the bow first. You really can't get a good feel for a bow with a few arrows at the shop anyway. It usually takes me a year of tuning, shooting and hunting to know if I like the bow or not. If not I sell it and get a new one. If I like it I'll keep it a few years. You can get all the info you need to work on a bow over YouTube and through forums like this one.

It comes down to numbers for the parent companies. Bottom line, Mathews, Hoyt, Bowtech, PSE, etc are in business to sell bows. When they feel they can sell more consumer direct or by offering online sales through dealers they will make the move. They aren't going to intentionally sell less product to protect a dealer network. I think that we, on these forums get a pretty jaded opinion of the market. Most of the guys here are hard core and live this stuff, I think we make up a very small portion of the market. Most of my buddies that "Bowhunt" shoot their bows maybe three or four times a year. They don't work on them, don't want to and don't know how. These guys either need a pro shop or they will just give up archery.

I don't think the bow companies are ever going to go consumer direct. I think we will see bows be sold over the internet by the Pro Shops. You will have larger shops in population centers and the little guys will go away. This is already happening. When the online sales start the small guys will all go away. PSE will likely be the first to jump ship, the others will follow shortly after.

Good, progressive shops will stick around. There will always be a place for them, that place will just get smaller.

 

[sndmn11]

If you lose a sale to a website due to price that is 100% your choice. Selling something at cost is better than watching a money in hand customer walk out the door to any competitor. If that scenario comes up regularly, then you are in the wrong business, or there is something wrong with what you are doing. Frankly, if you are looking to be successful going forward you need to BE THE TOP CHOICE WEBSITE that pops into people's minds when they want to order things. You can still have a brick and mortar, range etc., but if you are trying to survive on the local market and ignoring the other 99.99999999999% you better have the coolest range ever or be THE expert on something nationally. I would be willing to bet that if you called up Rocky Mountain Specialty Gear RMSGear - RMSGear that you would find a big portion of their sales our not through the door, yet, they still are THE experts and have a handy little range. A handful of Fly Fishing Shops do this successfully as well. I guess this all is very easy for me to say being a genuine direct to consumer business though.