Considering switching from pack goats to burros

[Bachto]

I have been running pack goats for about 5 years. I love my goats and probably have another 3 good years with them. There have been times where I wish I had a different type of packstock. Here are my considerations.

2 burros can pack what my 5 goats can pack. Going from 5 animals to worry about to 2 seems like it would make my life a little simpler.
Having to take my goats literally everywhere I go is sometimes really annoying. I make it work and most of the time it's no big deal but sometimes I just wish I had the option to leave them tied up somewhere. Especially bowhunting.
Goats are getting banned in more places and having to worry about if I can take them somewhere is inconvenient.

The pros for my goats are obvious, they can go anywhere I can go for the most part. So trail condition isn't something I take into too much consideration. I also almost never have to worry about food with them.

Any advice or consideration is helpfull.

 

[bisblue]

I have no goat experience, but I've had pack llamas and now mules and a BLM burro.

Bring your patience. I'm guessing a burro would be the opposite of a goat in terms of wanting to please you and follow you on the trail. Everything in a burros life could be a mountain lion in disguise waiting to kill them, and they need time to contemplate the danger while you stand there. Lots of training is mandatory.

Burros will need fed twice a day and will get fat quickly if left to graze on good forage. They have one stomach and will be more temperamental with food.

A good sized BLM burro will weigh 400 pounds or so and pack 25% of their body weight when in shape. There are other big donkeys that would weigh much more, but then you are in mule territory. Supposedly hotter climates have smaller BLM burros, and northern Nevada has the biggest. Picking the right animals is crucial, but there seems to be lots o fgood trainers and lower demand for Packers.

Downfall is a serious consideration and they don't like to jump over things quite like my llamas.

Pedro is also a puppy dog like sweetheart, and if I didn't luck into my mules, I might get all burros of I started over. Check out the link to a great new book on pack burros.

Amazon.com

 

[Miflatlander91]

The link doesn’t seem to be working for me


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[limpet]

It worked for me. It’s to a book called “

Backcountry Burro: Your How to Guide to Packing Donkeys in the Backcountry” by Shane Weigand.​

It’s a good book, I got it when it came out. He was a member here not sure if he still is. I’ve been debating between donkeys and goats for awhile now. I’ll be interested to see what others have to say about this.

 

[Miflatlander91]

It worked for me. It’s to a book called “

Backcountry Burro: Your How to Guide to Packing Donkeys in the Backcountry” by Shane Weigand.​

It’s a good book, I got it when it came out. He was a member here not sure if he still is. I’ve been debating between donkeys and goats for awhile now. I’ll be interested to see what others have to say about this.

Must be the goofy WiFi here thank you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bachto]

I really did consider llamas and I guess they are still on the table they just seem to be expensive to purchase. $3000 for a llama is a hard sell to the wife. "rescuing" a Burro off public land is a little easier sell .

My main dilemma is feeding them in the backcountry, and navigating unmaintained trails. Maybe that means I need to bring a bigger saw and be little more dilagent on the trails I choose. But that is the main appeal to packgoats is I can just go anywhere for the most part.

Maybe in the end I will stick with goats, this is just something I am considering.

 

[bisblue]

Llamas can live on hopes and dreams, eat anything, not much water. If they are a good packer, they are worth every penny. The burro is a lifestyle choice. Saving 10k is not a good reason to pick a burro. A $250 burro will be a bad purchase, you need to find a good trainer/ rescue who can pick the right animal, especially temperament.

The only drawback to llamas is they hate you and only tolerate being around you. I thought about borrowing mine back this elk season as I woke up early to soak pellets for mules and make sure they got water twice a day, etc....

Llamas are smart as all get out and can navigate terrain rougher than a burro for sure. But there is less bond there. I can also ride my mule and put my kid on a mule/burro. I'm sure my chance of dying in the backcountry is 10x with mules over llamas, maybe 3x over burros.

Llamas have a pack life of 4 years to 15-20 years old, so there is good bang there. Smaller mules usually work until 30+, burros maybe past 20 years?

 

[limpet]

I really did consider llamas and I guess they are still on the table they just seem to be expensive to purchase. $3000 for a llama is a hard sell to the wife. "rescuing" a Burro off public land is a little easier sell .

My main dilemma is feeding them in the backcountry, and navigating unmaintained trails. Maybe that means I need to bring a bigger saw and be little more dilagent on the trails I choose. But that is the main appeal to packgoats is I can just go anywhere for the most part.

Maybe in the end I will stick with goats, this is just something I am considering.

That’s where I am with llamas. That and I’m not sure how I feel about their personality.

That’s my main concern as well. We don’t have very many grassy areas where I hunt which is great because it keeps the mule and horse hunters away. For my area I know I’d have to pickier where I camp and likely pack in pellets or hay. Thankfully we hunt the same area multiple times a season so I could pack that in ahead of time.

That’s the other dilemma between goats and donkeys. I can probably get a goat 95% of places a blacktail will die but I’m not sure about donkeys. I’m sure it’ll be less and I’d have to do more work on trails to get them places.

My main hangup on goats is the amount of years you have to spend raising them compared to their viable packing life. A coworker has a herd of goats and it seems like every couple of years he’s having to get another one or two to make sure he has enough packers. Also bottle feeding kids isn’t compatible with my schedule as I work in the woods and I’m gone all day.

I’m probably not answering any questions but more venting my thought process between the two.

 

[limpet]

Llamas can live on hopes and dreams, eat anything, not much water. If they are a good packer, they are worth every penny. The burro is a lifestyle choice. Saving 10k is not a good reason to pick a burro. A $250 burro will be a bad purchase, you need to find a good trainer/ rescue who can pick the right animal, especially temperament.

The only drawback to llamas is they hate you and only tolerate being around you. I thought about borrowing mine back this elk season as I woke up early to soak pellets for mules and make sure they got water twice a day, etc....

Llamas are smart as all get out and can navigate terrain rougher than a burro for sure. But there is less bond there. I can also ride my mule and put my kid on a mule/burro. I'm sure my chance of dying in the backcountry is 10x with mules over llamas, maybe 3x over burros.

Llamas have a pack life of 4 years to 15-20 years old, so there is good bang there. Smaller mules usually work until 30+, burros maybe past 20 years?

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How much feed are you packing for your burro/day? And water consumption if you had a guess.
What kind of terrain would you take your llamas on that the burro won’t do? Is it the steepness? Rocks? Obviously logs are a problem. Business? I’m trying to get an idea if they’re right for me and there just isn’t a whole lot of info out there from people who do it.

 

[bisblue]

I think folks were telling me for a mule, so double the burro weight. With grazing 10 pounds per day, without grazing 20 pounds a day. Water consumption, I would say whatever they feel like drinking. They will often not drink for a while, then really hit it. I would just lowline the llamas with stakes, but the mules need a highline, hot fence and can run as fast as they want with hobbles.

I think one thing with the burro is they are wider and carry more weight so they end up needing a wider trail than a llama, but also can't do as much on steep terrain, but maybe they will open up once he trusts me more. Part of that is the safety part, there is more danger with an equine on steep terrain as they are bigger, but that is probably my lack of experience. The llamas running up behind you going down hill, doesn't feel as sketchy as a mule doing it. I've also had a fancy pack llama just step off the trail as he stared out in the distance, so there is that....

I would see if anyone around you rents them or packs with them, there was someone on here starting a business in Montana I think, and try to go see what it's all about.

 

[Bachto]

My main hangup on goats is the amount of years you have to spend raising them compared to their viable packing life. A coworker has a herd of goats and it seems like every couple of years he’s having to get another one or two to make sure he has enough packers. Also bottle feeding kids isn’t compatible with my schedule as I work in the woods and I’m gone all day.

This is also a little annoying. I'm at the point right now that I need to either get a few new goats or phase out of goats.

Goats are also escape artists in the pasture and I have one right now that is really starting to piss me off lol.

 

[limpet]

@bisblue Ok so 5-10 pounds/day.
Do you high line and electric fence them at the same time just in case or separate depending on the area?
Ok. Yeah I can imagine that a big mule coming down is not something you’d want to get in the way of. I’ve been watching Mather outdoors on YouTube and some other packing channels and what they’ll go up at times is nuts so I have some hope with practice they’ll get good on the steep.

I’m in California so I’m not sure if anyone even packs with them around here. I’ll probably reach out to one of our backcountry horseman’s units to see if anyone does.

What got you to switch out of llamas?


@Bachto I have a pretty good birria recipe if he gets too bad. Just say the word.

 

[bisblue]

I usually high line at night, hot fence during the day.

I had two llamas get sick and almost die. I Tahoe they would prefer death over me touching them. I also wanted to bring my kids more and it's steep country here in central idaho.

Steep is also relative. I used to be a climbing guide, I've jumped my llamas off a boulder into a snow bank because I took them into some small cliffs that were too narrow for their packs and them.