Conflicted on my archery setup for stalking elk

[roosiebull]

Wanting to get some perspective from those of you who stalk elk. I'm going out on my first archery stalk for late season elk in WA state. I've taken time off the 9-5 routine since early May to learn compound archery (needed a break anyway), so I've been working my ass off shooting daily, working on my bow, and building / testing arrows. I've hit every goal that I've set out for and then some, but I have one final thing to nail down.

For elk stalking (not from a stand or blind), I'm conflicted for what I want to use in terms of DW and arrows. I'd like to be in the 285-295FPS range regardless and have a higher FOC, 31" DL currently shooting 31" arrows with a 33" Phase 4 at 66#. With regards to FOC, I'm going for at least 16%, ideally 17-18% minimum. I've done extensive testing ever since I started building arrows this past May and have observed penetration anomalies with all of my lower FOC arrow builds exacerbated by cross winds.

These are the arrows that I'm debating:

450-460gn RIP XVs (300 spine):
Pros:
- VERY tight pin gap
- >20% FOC with incredible 50y penetration into wild hogs
- Exceptionally accurate with IW BHs and Magnus Stingers / Black Hornets
- Over 300FPS at 66# (I'd probably run them at ~63# ~295FPS)
Cons:
- Shafts are very fragile (they tend to split down the long axis)
- These fragile shafts make me nervous for field use
- On the light side for elk?

475gn RIP TKOs
Pros:
- They've very accurate, shafts are very durable
- 290FPS with an ideal elevation trajectory for my max effective range
- No signs of being under spined at 66# (tight at groups long range regardless of DW)
Cons:
- 14.2% FOC, penetration is hit or miss in the wind beyond 40y (deal breaker)

510-520gn RIP TKOs
Pros:
- Penetration is comparable to my RIP XVs (night and day difference compared to the 475gn)
- 16.8-17% FOC depending on fletch / vinyl
Cons:
- 275FPS, limits my max range for an ethical shot (the psychology of shooting these beyond 40y bugs me)
- Clearly under spined at 66#, so I'd need to build a different arrow in the 510-520gn range (I'm confident in being able to build a comparable arrow with a 250 spine)

I also have some 5mm Easton Axis arrows built out in 300 spine, but they're under spined over 64# regardless of the weight up front.


So I'm considering:

1. Taking my chances with the lighter RIP XV arrows
2. Drawing 70# to shoot the heavier arrows at the velocity that I'm looking for. I can draw 70# on my neighbor's PSE, but judging the pace at which I've worked up to 66# it'll probably take me 3-4 weeks before I'm conditioned to shoot at 70# all day (if that makes sense)
3. Open to suggestions

Thanks!

You are overthinking the more insignificant aspects of elk hunting, any of the above are completely effective. There are other areas to put your brain power and effort into that will be more productive than overthinking an arrow build… I went through the phase myself and it was distracting and doesn’t matter in real… the differences would never be measurable for one person to draw conclusions on.

Pick one and stick with it and start gaining confidence in it, familiarity is far more valuable than the actual difference between builds

 

[Marble]

Having never done a spot and stalk elk hunt with a bow, the OP will have a big learning curve. I would concentrate more on learning animal behavior, the area you are hunting and how your set up shoots. I have had several opportunities to kill elk while sneaking through the timber (and been very successful) but I've also been doing it for over 20 years and I know the area I hunt really well.

As far as arrows go, I would hit that 450-500 TAW mark, put a really good broadhead on and know my set up. FOC doesn't do anything more than TAW does when it comes to penetrating something.

And as far as wind goes, for hunting, it affects the shooter more than the arrow. FOC should help, but not enough to overcome the sway of shooter in the wind.

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[Jethro]

We have a @Marble and @Marbles, both with lots of posts? How did I never notice that before?

As for the OP, I agree with the replies. Too much analyzing. The 1/10% FOC is what caught my attention too. TAW, quality components, tunes from your bow, and can be put in the vitals.

 

[Marbles]

We have a @Marble and @Marbles, both with lots of posts? How did I never notice that before?

As for the OP, I agree with the replies. Too much analyzing. The 1/10% FOC is what caught my attention too. TAW, quality components, tunes from your bow, and can be put in the vitals.

Mine goes back to being called marble mouth due to a speech impediment in the military. I tried to make marbles stick (because I've also lost my marbles), but nicknames only ever stick if someone hates them.

 

[Marble]

We have a @Marble and @Marbles, both with lots of posts? How did I never notice that before?

As for the OP, I agree with the replies. Too much analyzing. The 1/10% FOC is what caught my attention too. TAW, quality components, tunes from your bow, and can be put in the vitals.

Mine is self given. Actually refers to white clear marble. I only use that name here.

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[TheTone]

As other have said, lots of overthinking on arrow set up and FOC. If you’re that concerned with penetration past a certain distance don’t take the shot

 

[raptor16]

Analysis Paralysis as others have said. It just doesn’t matter as much as you think it does. People have been killing elk for years with lower DW, shorter DL, lighter arrows, and lower FOC than any of your setups… and nothing will EVER be absolutely perfect on a hunt. Hell, why aren’t you accounting for the slight increase in speed you should get from the difference in air density between where you live and the mountains you’ll be hunting on? Maybe that will make up for the .07% FOC you’re worried about.

Proceed to “maximize” your setup, but you’re splitting hairs on a fly’s a** at this point.

40 yards > you should be good to go. Especially if you’ve been shooting literally 100s of arrows everyday since spring… ought to be stacking arrows out to 40 with that much practice.

 

[mtn_man]

I don't use collars for two reasons: (1) I cut my arrows as short as possible to the rest. I'd have to add another 1-1.5" of arrow length for a collar to clear my rest. And (2), after 17 years of shooting .204" ID arrows with HIT's and without collars, I just haven't seen a reason to use collars. For me, there are more negatives to them than benefits (the extra cost, extra time, ensuring they spin true, possibly more tuning issues, etc). I just haven't broken the ends of many arrows over the years.

After 2+ years of shooting the RIP TKO's I haven't broken any of those with just 75gr brass HIT's in them. A couple weeks ago an arrow blew right through a shot out turkey target on a "rocky" mountain course and survived with no damage except a damaged FP. Then missed a pronghorn target at 76 yards trying to hold over with my 60 pin. Again, no arrow damage. My 500gr arrows are flying 297fps with half a turn taken out of my Traverse.

Heck, for the price of some of those collars, you could buy several extra arrow shafts as backups if one does happen to break.

Well I got 15 of the Sirius Gemini shafts in a 250 spine and cut some of them down an inch shorter (down to 30.25"). They are absolute darts at 301FPS (about 453gn TAW with the IW S100 BHs). They seen way more forgiving than the standard length that I run. My 454gn TKOs are grouping tight to 70y with the Geminis as if they're the same arrows.

I hear you on thr collars. I should have enough room to run the IW collars (if I decide to use them for elk), but definitely not the collars for the Ethics half outs. My sight is already dialed in for them without the collars though, and tomorrow is opening day for whitetail so I'll be putting these to work bright and early.

 

[Invisiblecreek]

Whatever you can shoot consistent and accurate is my go to, no need to pull 90 pounds and 600gr arrow if you can’t shoot consistently when crunch time is here


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[LostArra]

Pardon the interruption but last week was my first hunting experience with an insert-half out.
I made a good shot (took out the major vessels coming out of the top of the heart) but the insert broke when the broadhead hit the inside of the opposite shoulder blade. The intact shaft fell out of the entry hole about 15 yards into her 30 yard death run. Maybe a collar would have helped but I have ordered HIT inserts based on the knowledge base on this forum..

Unless your broadheads are especially wide or your rest is adjusted especially low and/or close to the riser, you should be able to get your broadheads behind the riser. It may not be doable in all cases, but it's fairly common for guys to cut their arrows significantly shorter than their DL and not have broadhead clearance issues.

This is interesting. I have had Viper Tricks hit the riser on two different well-tuned bows, both Mathews.

 

[Billy Goat]

This is interesting. I have had Viper Tricks hit the riser on two different well-tuned bows, both Mathews.

I'd say you have something wrong. I can clear 1.5" bh's. It's tight, and I mostly use 1.25, but I'd say you have something off, or it's a 15 year old bow.

If a newer bow are you setting nock point between the axles and setting CS to 13/16 and shimming cams?

 

[Billy Goat]

@mtn_man is that your typical grip pictured?


How are you tuning, and are you tuning for each arrow setup?

 

[Ucsdryder]

@mtn_man is that your typical grip pictured?


How are you tuning, and are you tuning for each arrow setup?

I’m more worried about his grip than his arrow selection.

 

[LostArra]

I'd say you have something wrong. I can clear 1.5" bh's. It's tight, and I mostly use 1.25, but I'd say you have something off, or it's a 15 year old bow.

If a newer bow are you setting nock point between the axles and setting CS to 13/16 and shimming cams?

Avoid hijack. Pm incoming.

 

[mtn_man]

@mtn_man is that your typical grip pictured?


How are you tuning, and are you tuning for each arrow setup?

I just tune to shoot darts starting at 13/16" > bareshaft / walk back, and paper tuning only when something goes weird when they come off the string. I use that to filter out bad shafts and then I go fine tuning my rest with broadheads. Then I follow the procedure for zeroing my Canyon Pounder and dope to 80y in every weather condition possible.

Works perfect for me so I'm all set there. When I'm done tuning I'm never more than 4" from POA at 80 and the groups are solid taking 1 shot at a given distance between 15-80 with my entire quiver.

I’m more worried about his grip than his arrow selection.

LOL Not my regular grip. Just tried to get the rest section in focus for my phone attached to my tripod with a rubberband (phone was pointint down and shit was weird).

 

[Billy Goat]

I just tune to shoot darts starting at 13/16" > bareshaft / walk back, and paper tuning only when something goes weird when they come off the string. I use that to filter out bad shafts and then I go fine tuning my rest with broadheads. Then I follow the procedure for zeroing my Canyon Pounder and dope to 80y in every weather condition possible.

Works perfect for me so I'm all set there. When I'm done tuning I'm never more than 4" from POA at 80 and the groups are solid taking 1 shot at a given distance between 15-80 with my entire quiver.



LOL Not my regular grip. Just tried to get the rest section in focus for my phone attached to my tripod with a rubberband (phone was pointint down and shit was weird).

I'm not certain I'm following your tuning process.

Are you shooting bareshafts with fletched and tuning so they group together? Or broadheads against field points?

 

[Ucsdryder]

I just tune to shoot darts starting at 13/16" > bareshaft / walk back, and paper tuning only when something goes weird when they come off the string. I use that to filter out bad shafts and then I go fine tuning my rest with broadheads. Then I follow the procedure for zeroing my Canyon Pounder and dope to 80y in every weather condition possible.

Works perfect for me so I'm all set there. When I'm done tuning I'm never more than 4" from POA at 80 and the groups are solid taking 1 shot at a given distance between 15-80 with my entire quiver.



LOL Not my regular grip. Just tried to get the rest section in focus for my phone attached to my tripod with a rubberband (phone was pointint down and shit was weird).

Ok good because the way you were choking that thing I was wondering how you got anything to fly!

 

[mtn_man]

I'm not certain I'm following your tuning process.

Are you shooting bareshafts with fletched and tuning so they group together? Or broadheads against field points?

The former. My broadheads are shooting outstanding though without fletchings.

 

[Billy Goat]

The former. My broadheads are shooting outstanding though without fletchings.

With each arrow setup?

 

[mtn_man]

With each arrow setup?

Yep, I have it down to a science. Tuning has never been a big issue for me, but I've had a lot of free time this year to focus on compound archery. Just trying to get every little incremental gain that I can at this point. People have their opinions on that, but the little things add up.