Condensation...this floorless shelter experiment may be over

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

Yes you're correct it is a catch-22 situation and that's why I'm asking. As somebody who makes shelters I'd like to know if there's a general consensus on guys being willing to pay the weight penalty and an additional cost for better venting because that's something that I can easily add to my designs or is it better to have a stripped-down model and just have options that guys can add on their own how to customize as they see fit? From a manufacturer standpoint the latter is a headache. From a consumer standpoint I can totally understand the frustration with pain top dollar for a shelter and then having to have add-ons to make it do what you want. So where's the middle ground?

Live2hunt custom shelters

 

[Kevin Dill]

Curious....does the sawtooth still fit in its original stuff sack with the liners tied in, or did you have to do something a bit different? I'm thinking about going this route. I just watched the video on the install of the liner, and its not something I would want to mess with each time I set it up. 18 ounces of additional weight (according to patricks video) for the liner set in case anyone was wondering how much added weight they add.

I have never used my original Sawtooth stuff bag. I put the entire tipi shell and liners in a size small Granite Gear compression bag. That way I can crank the package down tight and small for packing.

 

[Davebuech]

Yes, it still fits in its' stuff sack with the liners. I'm not as smart as Kevin!

Curious....does the sawtooth still fit in its original stuff sack with the liners tied in, or did you have to do something a bit different? I'm thinking about going this route. I just watched the video on the install of the liner, and its not something I would want to mess with each time I set it up. 18 ounces of additional weight (according to patricks video) for the liner set in case anyone was wondering how much added weight they add.

 

[FlyGuy]

Yes you're correct it is a catch-22 situation and that's why I'm asking. As somebody who makes shelters I'd like to know if there's a general consensus on guys being willing to pay the weight penalty and an additional cost for better venting because that's something that I can easily add to my designs or is it better to have a stripped-down model and just have options that guys can add on their own how to customize as they see fit? From a manufacturer standpoint the latter is a headache. From a consumer standpoint I can totally understand the frustration with pain top dollar for a shelter and then having to have add-ons to make it do what you want. So where's the middle ground?

Live2hunt custom shelters

As long as it is not a "significant" penalty, I think it would be genious. I'd love to be able to leave my shelter completely zipped up, but vented, when I leave for the day with no concern about condensation built up or rain getting in while I'm out. Same for while I'm sleeping at night.

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[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

As long as it is not a "significant" penalty, I think it would be genious. I'd love to be able to leave my shelter completely zipped up, but vented, when I leave for the day with no concern about condensation built up or rain getting in while I'm out. Same for while I'm sleeping at night.

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I would imagine 5-6 oz for 2 bottom vents and 1 top, maybe less.

Live2hunt custom shelters

 

[Hunter Sargent]

The Redcliff I was using has a decent sized top vent, it just didn't seem to do anything. I will experiment with pitching it up a bit to see if that helps create a draft through the vent.

 

[nrh6.7]

I'm curious if anyone has looked at the Locus Gear e-vent tipis and have any thoughts on them.

Taken from their site:

Khufu eVent – a Pyramid shaped monopole shelter – is designed to pitch with one pole (adjustable to 130cm length) and 8-16 tieouts.
*Pole and stakes are not included.
The fabric officially called Pertex Shield DV incorporating eVent has the ability of 61,000 gr/m2/24h (JIS L1099 B-1 method) in the breathability and 431.0 kPa (JIS L 1092 B method) in the water proofing property.

Khufu eVent II has the great function of prevention from condensation. To keep itself dried with discharging water vapor inside the shelter, that is because Direct Venting™ Technology in the latest eVent fabric chosen purposefully for the Khufu eVent.

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[bpctcb]

I recently used a Luna 4 and I was impressed with its top vent. It was very sizeable yet kept all the rain & snow out.

BP

 

[AK Troutbum]

I'm curious if anyone has looked at the Locus Gear e-vent tipis and have any thoughts on them.

Taken from their site:

Khufu eVent – a Pyramid shaped monopole shelter – is designed to pitch with one pole (adjustable to 130cm length) and 8-16 tieouts.
*Pole and stakes are not included.
The fabric officially called Pertex Shield DV incorporating eVent has the ability of 61,000 gr/m2/24h (JIS L1099 B-1 method) in the breathability and 431.0 kPa (JIS L 1092 B method) in the water proofing property.

Khufu eVent II has the great function of prevention from condensation. To keep itself dried with discharging water vapor inside the shelter, that is because Direct Venting Technology in the latest eVent fabric chosen purposefully for the Khufu eVent.

View attachment 58430
View attachment 58431
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I’d be interested to hear thoughts/reviews on this as well. I have a LG cuben fiber shelter that I think is very well made and I like a lot (I’m a big fan of CF), but I’m curious about the effectiveness of eVent for a shelter. This may just be my imagination but, from my experience, CF has less issues with water on the inside than silnylon does. I have experienced more water/condition inside floorless silnylon shelters than I have with CF shelters. I don’t know if this has anything to do with silnylon appearing to soak up water and “wet out” for lack of a better term, or if it’s from the sil shelters I’ve owned, and/or the way I’ve pitched them. I do know that I have used both floorless silnylon and CF shelters in identical (wet/humid), conditions and CF has worked much better for me.


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[nrh6.7]

AK, what I found interesting was the breathability rating on that thing. 61,000 vs 30,000 of MLD's bivy. Seems like condensation would be nonexistent. I might be reaching out to this company for additional info as I need a bivy and this tipi looks nice also.

 

[Beendare]

Ventilation is one of the keys. I just had my homemade tipi on 2 hunts and it worked out well without a liner. I sewed a short skirt around the perimeter with lots of venting and it helps immensely. In alaska we were camped in a swamp....no other option. Water smushed under the tent and when raining hard you could actually hear the water running under you [brutal really]. We had to build it up with alders, then brush over the top to stay out of the mush as a base under the tent with tarp under our pads.

Then in Montana....not as bad but damp ground due to melting snow......condensation controlled. I will do a thread in the DIY section when I get time.

 

[Mansfield Outdoors]

Just got back from an elk hunt (buddy got a bull) where 3 of us stayed in a Seek Outside Redcliff. We had major condensation problems at night, to the point where the top of my down bag would be completely saturated by morning. We had the same problem in a Kifaru Sawtooth last year. Any suggestions? Using the stove at night didn't seem to help, and buying $300 worth of liners for an already $700 shelter is stupid.

Thanks.

Congratulations on the bull!

Floorless isn't necessarily the problem, it's more that floorless single wall nylon tents keep you dry inside because they are coated or impregnated with a silicone or other waterproofing agent which renders it unbreathable and condensation issues are indeed the nemesis. Our Tentipi nylon tents are are available with full inner-tents (much like a liner but with a full sewn-in floor as well), which provides a condensation barrier. But the reason our lightweight canvas tents vastly outsell our nylon versions is because our cp canvas material is fully breathable and virtually eliminates the condensation problems.

Yes canvas is heavier than nylon, but our cp (cotton/polyester) fabric is very lightweight for a breathable canvas and when broken down by weight-per-person they come in at only about 3 lbs. ea. Tentipi's cp fabric is truly innovative because it enables all the advantages of a large, breathable canvas shelter in a much lighter, smaller packing, easier, single center pole (Nordic tipi) design.

I don't know if a lightweight canvas tipi can work for your way of using tents but they're certainly worth considering if they can. Check them out here - Tentipi Nordic tipi tents & stoves. USA based authorized distributor | MansfieldOutdoors.com - and feel free to call or email me directly if I can provide any help.

 

[mfllood3800]

I have the redcliffe. I never set up on grass if possible- that is a killer for sure.
I try to find ground that is dirt or needles or at least free of vegetation that holds moisture.

I do have about 10" guy lines tied into each stake area to allow a high pitch set up when needed. I make sure the top vent is as open as it can be too. These get smashed down while stored in the stuff sack and squished in the pack. I leave about 3" of both zipper doors open at bottom.

I just spent 3 days in it at 10,500' in 20 degree weather, with snow on ground, in air- lots of moisture- no issues. I pitched it on some grassless area I found.

Location is as much a key in some ways as is the set up