Condensation on a quilt

[UA_Blake]

I just got back from a 7 day back country hunt and I ran into an issue I didn’t expect. I was using a floorless shelter and a down quilt. I expected condensation on the tent itself which is something I am familiar with. However, I had condensation on the shell of my quilt every morning and I mean a lot of it. My tentmate was using a down sleeping bag from a different manufacturer and did not have this issue and it wasn’t dripping from the tent onto the bag. I will say conditions were pretty wet and it snowed 4-6” one night as well. There were two others on the trip with the same quilts and all had the same situation. The down didn’t clump and the bag actually performed well outside of this one issue. Anyone have any experience with this? This was my first trip using a down quilt.

Theory: I was going to bed at night with damp cloths, maybe my body heat was evaporating the moisture, the vapor was moving through the quilt, and condensing on the cool surface of the quilt shell.

 

[AK Troutbum]

Theory: I was going to bed at night with damp cloths, maybe my body heat was evaporating the moisture, the vapor was moving through the quilt, and condensing on the cool surface of the quilt shell.

That’s exactly what was happening.


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[mtwarden]

Most likely your moisture; it's the reason I like to combine a down quilt/bag with a very lightweight synthetic one. Your moisture moves straight through the down quilt/bag and any condensation is on the outer synthetic quilt which is better able to handle moisture over down.

For a couple day trip generally not a huge concern, as the days add up, it could easily be a huge concern.

My synthetic quilt (all of 12 oz) does double duty on cold glassing days- it has a "poncho" hole and I simply drop it over the rest of the clothing I have on. It also allows me to use a lighter down quilt/bag as well- the lightweight syn quilt bumps my sleep system roughly 20 degrees

 

[Clarktar]

Most likely your moisture; it's the reason I like to combine a down quilt/bag with a very lightweight synthetic one. Your moisture moves straight through the down quilt/bag and any condensation is on the outer synthetic quilt which is better able to handle moisture over down.

For a couple day trip generally not a huge concern, as the days add up, it could easily be a huge concern.

My synthetic quilt (all of 12 oz) does double duty on cold glassing days- it has a "poncho" hole and I simply drop it over the rest of the clothing I have on. It also allows me to use a lighter down quilt/bag as well- the lightweight syn quilt bumps my sleep system roughly 20 degrees

Which quilt is it?



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[mtwarden]

it's the MLD Spirit 48 Apex quilt ( w/ poncho hole)

https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/product/spirit-quilt-48/

 

[sndmn11]

That’s exactly what was happening.


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@UA_Blake, this is the right answer and I will add that it is a good sign your quilt's materials (shell and insulation) were performing exactly as designed and intended.

 

[Only Dreaming]

Last year, I had the same issue while using my Katabatic Gear Sawatch on my two hunts, Dall sheep and moose. After each trip, I was on the phone with Katabatic Gear trying to figure out what was happening. For the record, Katabatic gear was great and I do really like the quilt. The condensation seemed odd given that I had been using a down bag for year and never noticed the issue.

I/ we came us with three possibilities. First, my quilt was a bit warmer than my sleeping bag. We reasoned that moisture that previously would have been driven straight through now had the opportunity to condense on the shell. Second, I was less attentive to changing and slept in damp clothes. Third, given that I was using a tipi without a ground cloth for both hunts, my moisture levels were generally high.

I agree with the rest of the post. The quilt was doing its job and moisture is always something that must be managed.

My moose hunt was very quick! Out on Friday morning and back on Sunday with a moose on board. Given that my sheep hunt was much longer with fewer back up resources, I took advantage of any bit of sun or wind to dry the quilt. While sun was in short supply and moisture was in abundance, the quilt never let me down.

Notice in the second picture how the right 1/3rd of the quilt is dry while the left 2/3rds is damp. The right side had the added benefit of a little more draft near the side of the tipi. This is a great illustration of the benefit of a little, but not too much, air movement.

 

[Only Dreaming]

I just got back from a 7 day back country hunt and I ran into an issue I didn’t expect. I was using a floorless shelter and a down quilt. I expected condensation on the tent itself which is something I am familiar with. However, I had condensation on the shell of my quilt every morning and I mean a lot of it. My tentmate was using a down sleeping bag from a different manufacturer and did not have this issue and it wasn’t dripping from the tent onto the bag. I will say conditions were pretty wet and it snowed 4-6” one night as well. There were two others on the trip with the same quilts and all had the same situation. The down didn’t clump and the bag actually performed well outside of this one issue. Anyone have any experience with this? This was my first trip using a down quilt.

Theory: I was going to bed at night with damp cloths, maybe my body heat was evaporating the moisture, the vapor was moving through the quilt, and condensing on the cool surface of the quilt shell.

Was your quilt using a DWR treated down while your tent mate had untreated down? I wondered if the untreated down absorbs a bit more moisture that the treated down just passes through.

 

[GunsAreFun]

Most likely your moisture; it's the reason I like to combine a down quilt/bag with a very lightweight synthetic one. Your moisture moves straight through the down quilt/bag and any condensation is on the outer synthetic quilt which is better able to handle moisture over down.

To clarify, after the moisture goes through the down quilt, it gets stuck between the down and synthetic layers or it keeps going and moved to the outside of the synthetic layer where it then condensates?

 

[Clarktar]

To clarify, after the moisture goes through the down quilt, it gets stuck between the down and synthetic layers or it keeps going and moved to the outside of the synthetic layer where it then condensates?

It will move to the outer most layer in my experience which would be the outside of the synthetic layer

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[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Very good info on this thread.

Follow up for the OP: Did your quilt dry out during the day while you were hunting? Or did the shell stay damp?

 

[UA_Blake]

Thats a good point I hadn’t considered. My quilt did have a treated down. Maybe my hunting partners down was absorbing the moisture although he didn’t mention losing any loft.

Was your quilt using a DWR treated down while your tent mate had untreated down? I wondered if the untreated down absorbs a bit more moisture that the treated down just passes through.

 

[UA_Blake]

Very good info on this thread.

Follow up for the OP: Did your quilt dry out during the day while you were hunting? Or did the shell stay damp?

The shell would dry out somewhat throughout the day. I really do not have a complaint about the performance. I didn’t see any noticeable loss of loft and stayed warm the entire 8 day trip.

 

[Mike Islander]

Mystery solved.

Just curious; why did you not bring dry sleeping clothing?

 

[Only Dreaming]

Mystery solved.

Just curious; why did you not bring dry sleeping clothing?

For me, it was all about weight and simplicity.

While I was not aware the degree to which I would see condensation, I value not carrying the extra weight of a change of clothes in my pack. Also, I like the ability to roll out of my quilt on a cold morning, throw on some outerwear on and get about the day. I hate the thought of waking up having to strip off my warm clothes to put on some cold damp clothes then trying to recover all that heat until I can generate some from activity.

We encountered a lot of rain on my sheep hunt and I never noticed the loss of loft. While I was obviously bothered by the moisture, I am not sure that I would change anything. Based upon my experiences, I'll dry things out when I can and move on with the hunt.

 

[Only Dreaming]

Thats a good point I hadn’t considered. My quilt did have a treated down. Maybe my hunting partners down was absorbing the moisture although he didn’t mention losing any loft.

I never cease to be amazed at how difficult it is to actually prove what is going on. I am simply floating a theory that would need much broader experience and testing to verify.

For example, how much moisture needs to accumulate before a user notices a loss of loft? Clearly there is a point when this happens. I have no idea what environmental conditions lead to the the end user noticing a loss of loft.

Anecdotally, your observations and experience are interesting and may lead others to respond in sufficient number to come to some tentative conclusions.

The nerd in my loves this stuff! Or we can just keep hunting knowing that the nerds have our back while we just need a little common sense.

 

[supermatt9]

Most likely your moisture; it's the reason I like to combine a down quilt/bag with a very lightweight synthetic one. Your moisture moves straight through the down quilt/bag and any condensation is on the outer synthetic quilt which is better able to handle moisture over down.

For a couple day trip generally not a huge concern, as the days add up, it could easily be a huge concern.

My synthetic quilt (all of 12 oz) does double duty on cold glassing days- it has a "poncho" hole and I simply drop it over the rest of the clothing I have on. It also allows me to use a lighter down quilt/bag as well- the lightweight syn quilt bumps my sleep system roughly 20 degrees

So you take a warm down quilt and a super light synthetic quilt with you in cold situations? And you put the synthetic quilt over the top of the down quilt? Just want to make sure I'm understanding correctly.

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[mtwarden]

So you take a warm down quilt and a super light synthetic quilt with you in cold situations? And you put the synthetic quilt over the top of the down quilt? Just want to make sure I'm understanding correctly.

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Yup- I'll either take a 30 or a 15 degree quilt depending on the forecast and bring a 50 degree Apex quilt (weighs 12.5 oz) which goes over the top of the down bag/quilt- with the 30 degree (and the 50 degree) I'm good to about 10-15 degrees, with the 15 I've had it to 0 just fine.

here's a chart from EE showing combinations of quilts

 

[gilby]

The condensation on my 0deg quilt makes so much more sense now. I was getting frost on the outer edge of my quilt, while the guy next to me didn't have much. He had a 20F bag without DWR down, I'm guessing the 20deg bag had the bulk of the moisture going all through.