Colorado to much hunting pressure for my comfort .

[Jqualls]

I love that I have a guaranteed chance to go chase mediocre bulls every year. I hunt a popular unit with lots of road access and for the most part only see a few hunters when I get to my hunting area. I hunt from the truck everyday and have never done the go deep thing. Any bull is a trophy to me and I have yet to ever pass up a legal bull. Since we are in the era of making everyone feel good about themselves maybe the state needs to start giving out some participation trophies. Might make some feel better about themselves when they come out and expect a trophy to be waiting for them after thinking their online hunting course and e-scouting guarantees them a wall hanger on secluded public land. I know lots of people who are successful every year in popular OTC units but they put in years of time learning the area.

 

[dr.mooseknuckles]

I ran into a few people on my 1st (and first ever) Rifle Season Elk hunt. Didn’t ruin the experience for me. We were in steep shit in unseasonably cold weather. While I do think those were limiting factors, busting ass, persistence, and moving quietly through and area (not hauling ass on a 4-wheeler or quad) helped us succeed in locating elk and ultimately getting lucky enough for a shot.

I do believe I had pure beginners luck, but I also believe luck is when hard work meets opportunity. I’d go right back to where I killed my bull and hunt that area confidently, knowing I’d probably tag out with an either sex tag.

All about your perception. Contrary to the saying, perception DOES NOT equal reality.


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[swampokie]

This was my first year hunting Colorado as a Resident, and honestly I was absolutely blown away by the number of hunters and the experience as a result. Those of you saying that primitive weapons makes things better I say BS, I hiked in 4.5 miles during muzzleloader to set up my spike camp and there were so many archery hunters in there it was ridiculous.i literally met 13 different hunters in one day, and 2/3 of them were not from Colorado. They were from Texas,Oklahoma, Indiana and other places. There were meadows that I intended on hunting above 10,000 and there were literally tent camps in them when I got up there. I had to quit bugling because it brought hunters to me. 2nd rifle for deer and my son had an elk tag was absolutely insane. It looked like a small city from above looking down into the valleys an hr before first light as hunters prepared to go out and hunt. Even hunting high ridges and basins we ran into other hunters at every turn. To be real honest it’s a pretty big let down to move here and be so excited to hunt and then experience what I did. I’m sure some people are successful but what I saw was that the majority aren’t and man it’s a lotta work to execute these hunts and only leave diappointed. Most hunting I have done invoivles the hunter being more cunning than the animal he hunts, here the human pressure factor here is completely unavoidable and saps so much of the excitement out of the hunt. It’s a big state with lots of wilderness but it’s absolutely astonishing how many people are out there doing the same thing at the same time. Reminds me of combat fishing for salmon in Alaska but at least in that the odds are good, here not so much. I’m sure some will respond with “I never saw a single hunter where we were at” man I sure wish I knew where that is! I can’t see how continuing to give res and non-res unlimited OTC archery and rifle tags and think that this working. I think it should be draw for everything and they have to reduce the number of non-res hunters, it’s just too much. Although we all know that the state only cares about one thing and that’s $$$, they don’t care how many non - res hunters leave here empty handed every season as long as they get their $661 for that tag that gives them hope of success!

Couldn't agree more. I hunted archery otc two years ago and saw more people in the wilderness area than in town. I hunted rifle bear this year and saw not one other rifle bear hunter but I saw dozens of bright eyed enthusiastic sitka wearing archers stomping like there was no tomorrow. Please Colorado lets do something to limit the number of hunters in the units even if it means not hunting every year. Primitive or modern weapons it doesn't matter its overcrowded

 

[westrnwild]

Colorado is about to start cutting tags. But sadly all those complain in here will most likely be complaining they can't draw. All of Colorado is dire need to go to a system like wyo or Mt where they qouta the NRs hunters. You'll hate it at first but just think in a few years it will be better for everyone. Plus if Colorado wants to they can raise prices on residents to cover the cost. I think most residents wouldn't mind if things got better. The elk are on a major decline and the state is finally admitting it. They we're living the sucker born every minute thing and it worked for years yet the internet is finally blowing up CPW scheme.

 

[wannakillabigbull]

The elk are on a major decline

Are they, though? By population the elk herd in Colorado has grown each of the last 3 years and is higher than its ever been recorded. I don’t see how that’s a decline.

In general I’m just not a fan of arm chair quarterbacks acting like they know better than biologists that spent years studying this stuff in school and on the job. They study the herds year round throughout their units, yet a bunch of people are acting like they know what’s best for the herd because they spent one week in a relatively small location in the unit and saw more dudes than elk. Sounds anecdotal to me.

 

[Jimss]

I certainly hope those that posted above are willing to share their constructive comments in the up-coming 5 year plan. If enough of us do this the CPW will likely listen and make changes for the better!

One of the biggest problems Colo OTC units face isn't numbers of elk but the high density of hunters from archery through the late rifle seasons. That's a heck of a long duration of time with extremely high hunting pressure! The elk know exactly where to go once all the ATVs and hunters hit the trails.....that's private land!!! Elk go to where the least amount of hunting pressure exists.....which more times than not is private land! Do you think the CPW can manage hunting pressure and get decent harvest in units with lots of private land? The CPW would finally be able to manage the increase/decrease in the elk population with all draw tag allotments.

Just because Colo goes to all draw for elk doesn't mean that you won't be able to hunt elk every year. Take a look at how many deer units take 0 to 1 pref pts or have left over tags after the draw. When the CPW switched over to all draw deer the quality of bucks plus quality experience dramatically increased (other than all the OTC elk units). How many guys draw quality deer tags that they've waited a lifetime to draw but in an OTC elk unit with gobs of orange running up and down roads and trails? With all draw units for both deer PLUS elk the CPW would finally be able to manage hunter and herd numbers for both species!

 

[Elktaco]

Those are some of the most heavily hunted units in the state and 2nd season has by far the most hunters afield during that season. I have and will continue to hunt those same units you mentioned and will be successful mostly by getting off the roads into some hellholes

 

[cnelk]

Back in the early 2000s the Colorado elk herd hovered around 320,000.
That when the DOW implemented the extra cow tags to help manage herd objectives.

Now the elk herd is approx 280,000, and nearing herd objectives.

Yes, there may be regional areas where the elk population is down below objectives, due to calf recruitment, but the CPW is researching ways to help that - i.e. bull only tags for those areas.

Also, 20+ years ago, I remember when drawing a cow tag was really special.
Now the CPW cant get rid of them all in some areas.


If you think its crowded now:
Rifle elk hunters, from 2005 to 2016.
In 2005 there were 197, 089 rifle elk hunters.
That number decreased to 159,000 in 2011 but has remained somewhat steady around 161,000 to 163,598-- in the year 2016.
A decrease of 33,000 rifle elk hunters over the 10 year period.

Bow hunters:
In 2005 there were 35, 628 bow elk hunters.
That number has steady increased to 41, 967 (year 2013) and then to 47, 721 in the year of 2016.
An increase of 12,000 bow hunters since 2005.

Over all, less elk hunters, less rifle hunters, and more bow hunters.

Rifle hunter numbers have seemed to leveled off to around 163,000 hunters.
Bow hunters have increase most every year.

Jimss has been pounding his 'ALL DRAW FOR ELK' drum for many years, but the facts is its not going to happen anytime soon.
There is too much $$$ at risk.

There is probably going to be some 'tweaks'to some units here and there, but nothing major in the next 5 Year BGSS

 

[Jimss]

A HUGE benefit to converting to all draw elk would be hunters that draw tags would burn their pref pts rather than just building pts! Only a fraction of all units in Colo are limited so there would be a lot more guys burning than building pts.

I'm not exactly sure why there is too much $$$ at risk with all draw elk? There may actually be less hunters returning to hunt Colo if they are paying a pretty hefty price for tags, gas, lodging, etc and aren't having a quality experience? Some of hunters may get out of the current pref pt jumping game if they are paying a chunk of cash for pref pts/application fees, etc and aren't getting any closer to drawing tags.

The big kicker with unlimited elk tags is the CPW can't manage herd and hunter numbers...period end of story! What I've been saying all along is that just because elk goes to all draw doesn't mean there is significant drop in tag numbers (and revenue). The CPW could allocate the same exact number of tags currently issued but all units would be a draw. I would think it would be the CPW responsibility to increase or decrease tag numbers according to herd numbers and hunting pressure rather than basing things on minor economic gain/losses?

There are a lot more advantages than disadvantages going to all draw elk! I predict that Colo elk units go to all draw in the next 10 years!

 

[westrnwild]

Hate to burst everyones bubble. But this elk population numbers are way off. In fact the state has not conducted a aerial survey or other means of calculation in about 8 years with in most regions of the state...they actually have no clue at this point. Regardless what they say. They also claim 20% success rate every year. Even last year. One of the worst seasons I've ever seen. Yet Gohunt has most units in the state around 5% success. I also work for this great state and talk to other state employees daily about this topic. CPW knows they need to make a change. When people say 280k elk..my question is where? There ain't no 50k in the flat tops anymore.

Here is a recent article talking about the decline of elk in the San Juans and they believe it's directly related to pressure
Access Denied

 

[Wapiti66]

Hate to burst everyones bubble. But this elk population numbers are way off. In fact the state has not conducted a aerial survey or other means of calculation in about 8 years with in most regions of the state...they actually have no clue at this point. Regardless what they say. They also claim 20% success rate every year. Even last year. One of the worst seasons I've ever seen. Yet Gohunt has most units in the state around 5% success. I also work for this great state and talk to other state employees daily about this topic. CPW knows they need to make a change. When people say 280k elk..my question is where? There ain't no 50k in the flat tops anymore.

Here is a recent article talking about the decline of elk in the San Juans and they believe it's directly related to pressure
Access Denied

This article was brought up recently in another thread. That article is clearly written from a leftist perspective and is meant to curb public opinion on hunting and its effects on wildlife. Its full of opinions from lefists to make the points they want to. They rule out predators and disease as a factor based on a quote. They push to promote predator expansion yet don't want to consider predators eating other game as an issue for so-called declining numbers. Find it weird that an article from the Durango Herald is re-run in US News? Divide and conquer is at work here. Wake up people, they have an agenda to take out hunting.

 

[westrnwild]

This article was brought up recently in another thread. That article is clearly written from a leftist perspective and is meant to curb public opinion on hunting and its effects on wildlife. Its full of opinions from lefists to make the points they want to. They rule out predators and disease as a factor based on a quote. They push to promote predator expansion yet don't want to consider predators eating other game as an issue for so-called declining numbers. Find it weird that an article from the Durango Herald is re-run in US News? Divide and conquer is at work here. Wake up people, they have an agenda to take out hunting.

Not to get political but last time I checked very few right wing organizations care about conservation like left organizations do. BHA and TRCP are definitely left wing hunting groups doing g way more for conservation of hunting rights and protection of public spaces then any other hunting groups. Even RMEF is starting to team more left then right as of late. Yet the NRA Continues to support and fund political canidates that wanna sell of land thus adding more stress and pressure to public land hunting g But to stay on topic. If the state does have way too much pressure. If anything it will become more and more an issue when people starting having to many hunting related accidents. And heaven for bid some one shoots a hiker on accident. It wont matter if your left or right. They will start closing areas for safety. And start eliminating rifle hunting all together. The state needs to start limiting pressure. It can't be unlimited

 

[Wapiti66]

Im not saying there isn't a pressure issue. I've hunted several units over the last 15 or so years and do think the pressure is too high for the elk numbers and cost of tags. My point is that the article is trying to act like the only reason for the decline in the region is over hunting, and they don't consider predators, development of winter habitat, or pressure from all the hikers and nature goers as any part of the problem. You can argue percentages of whose to blame the most all day long but to dismiss everything but hunting is very left slanted and wreaks to me. Besides, is the hunter to blame for buying the tag that Colorado puts up for sale? I honestly feel these types of articles are set out to turn the public opinion against hunting in general for the long term goal of eliminating hunting/guns.

 

[westrnwild]

I definitely dont disagree with you. Yes the article is not well thought out and does not cover all the issues. In the San Juans for instance drought has been horrible for years. I'm sure animal decline can be directly related to that. CPW can't continue to set it and forget it with tags anymore. Then need to be able to add and subtract based off science...and yes that article definitely puts blame on hunting pressure which definitely caused by the states inability to manage pressure and herd health. I talk to CPW employees all the time and they admit the systis screwed. It's about money. Not management. But with the increase of state residents and in state hunters. There is a huge push starting to change things. I just hope they don't F it up

 

[cnelk]

Hate to burst everyones bubble. But this elk population numbers are way off. In fact the state has not conducted a aerial survey or other means of calculation in about 8 years with in most regions of the state...they actually have no clue at this point.

Yes, the CPW does annual surveys each year - http://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Co...-Survey-Explanation.pdf#search=aerial surveys


What the CPW HAS NOT done in about 10 years is update the DAU data.
This past April I reached out the the CPW and asked when new DAU data will be available

This was the answer I got:

Thank you for contacting Colorado Parks and Wildlife. The reason for this is that DAU's are management plans that are reevaluated every 10 years. Those management plans that are upwards of those 10 years old will be reevaluated and rewritten shortly. The most recent data would be the post hunt population estimates as far as herd sizes etc. Those can be found on our Hunting Statistics page.

Thanks again for your inquiry. Please feel free to contact us with any further questions!

Joshua Bauer
Communication Center/Hunt Planners

 

[5MilesBack]

Colo went to all draw tags for deer many years ago and the quality of bucks has skyrocketed.

Really? How long have you been hunting in Colorado? I still haven't seen the numbers and the quality of bucks that we used to see year round back in the 80's. It's been so bad in comparison that I know people that are convinced the reason for that was the "draw" change. Back in the 80's Colorado used to get flooded with deer/elk hunters north of 300k every year, but we always saw a lot of great bucks. This year during archery I saw more deer and more "quality" deer than any other year since the 80's. But I hunted in an area that is in extreme drought, so I think the deer were more congregated this year in those areas. I hunted the same areas two years ago and hardly saw any deer......which has been the norm for quite some time. We used to see 100+ deer and dozens of elk every day in the 80's. Deer numbers are down from then, but elk numbers are 100k more according to DOW estimates.

 

[westrnwild]

Didn't say they didn't. They just don't do them in all the regions anymore. And the 10 year plan thing is atrocious...I actually met a biologist that left Colorado and went to another Western state cause he complained about the way things we're done. Especially that 10 year plan. Colorado even has a write up if you do some more homework that says aerial surveys cost to much and don't produce good data. Yet just about every other western state does it. And if they don't they usually have 100% Hunter survey requirements like New Mexico. Almost everything CPW sends out as data is a guesstimate

 

[ckleeves]

Can you imagine how the deer hunting would be if it was unlimited OTC buck tags? Thank goodness it’s all draw.


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[cnelk]

Can you imagine how the deer hunting would be if it was unlimited OTC buck tags? Thank goodness it’s all draw.

Can you imagine how good the deer hunting would be along the Front Range if the DOW wouldnt have slaughtered THOUSANDS of deer during the early CWD era??

That was 15 years ago and only now they are starting to come back.


The deer herd isnt near the size of the elk herd and it MUCH more susceptible to winter kill and other opponents

 

[ckleeves]

Can you imagine how good the deer hunting would be along the Front Range if the DOW wouldnt have slaughtered THOUSANDS of deer during the early CWD era??

That was 15 years ago and only now they are starting to come back.


The deer herd isnt near the size of the elk herd and it MUCH more susceptible to winter kill and other opponents

The Deer herd is larger then the elk herd, but I do agree about it being much more susceptible to winter kill other mortality in general then elk are.


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