Colorado Overcrowding Elk Hunting

[Poser]

Admittedly, mine is what we'd call in science an "anecdotal observation" and nothing more than one data point. Rather than criticize my observation, it would be helpful to everyone (me included,) if you could provide the data you say you've seen to support your position.

Here is a link to a often cited study about recreational trail impacts.

https://pdf.sciencedirectassets.com/271259/1-s2.0-S0378112718X00024/1-s2.0-S0378112717319928/am.pdf?X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEEQaCXVzLWVhc3QtMSJHMEUCIQD8U7X1VauKvomXaNpgMmCCP2q1AFsCc5EBtqXUi%2FMOIQIgZNu7yjngteQ1L%2Bi%2FISVLz2ggCB811Zwh%2BcFK8V9un60q1QQI3P%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FARAFGgwwNTkwMDM1NDY4NjUiDKhu5qXQxJ6nqjB8sSqpBB%2BQTYNS6KdYwZuDCfE%2F7hiVoz74y%2F5l4%2Bl5%2Br4jAG3wqKV5YSiwo%2Bh4bAxqRWkFgvPC3G61QOHec29ZMD7Bk4INDfzABtn4d%2Bpf%2BEwU2a10gp1BKz7yG1%2BDZXFTHql9oyWewAE0zpj8IZ7q%2BSLbJ2DxcAZKQBc4Lsu00O3FNsSOBMYZA2Dpxlb3Z8c2J85EfhnulpZXFH1nhu3hAgMxDDRt8wdkXOtAMzAT9r69OITfJDXOFAzPjzZvy8lWlVz%2BykyIO44TT9B27K0mxyGwxII99HSk%2FGO5NZeSpKVhLBHXS1TXLoNnQ%2BhKAL%2FIdZpqycOXPQ5Zu2yNAA8m2vc699LmvbrVj6meutbmZAM54vXEhGCQuZ8zzBnys48O90xGD32nxTNqiWSk%2FoAd0yRUa%2BGmDWA2mr2ucJb5pRIBzFHHnsJ8LrN0BmdKBXzv74b5PF2OFnVvvkpabhuPOQofSLpI5EIyABl1FZ4m9fZneQfPEPZOm9AJOSUvAufWsuptibEClDS%2BW16LByChsHrah%2B4i39xw2deIJxIMy9RlDRx5abf1OaDy8FimUsm3i7cNfVIxb9UraUw5%2FODDRUyyyzTG4c3Bi9IMJou8zErVnewnavOHUHeeMF%2BQ21nyriznIcevUR6uFJF568iRl3%2BSLB1daMFRdJAoQ%2FSXCkSnWo7BCBIqz1dyZa1iOtV9r%2FiNNhP51IVW9hZTHL0XYzU5BpJ22PYhO7Dsv3Awm%2FWNmQY6qQHvJjbVYRVdAS1n38xEn%2BedlFhlu0VKlD4vjSMYlQMkh0LnLi%2BQHw2btl5AgDeosn%2F9R6X0H2beEb9haHYbmDYaufPx5HhkG22zYDGL2Mz6xXEuMXkxNyV8WIGijjFsFNtTuUVMyP26rhrNZFTOXb5bmi8wCCa7An%2BAK4OU9bSzteYaNu03meDYQxqMIMq3WfZ58MQS7Zf%2B8hPSID0kf%2FjQUlmYuN15mYDB&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Date=20220915T200704Z&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAQ3PHCVTYYICYIHCL%2F20220915%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Signature=f3cf1d81627500f323ae4a6ba2c74a3f7dc69d0aebf646f8cf848b8f41bf3771&hash=b11fceaf0db7c469297cf5f3f933fd833aa9272bd0af9a25555c6d3ff668af10&host=68042c943591013ac2b2430a89b270f6af2c76d8dfd086a07176afe7c76c2c61&pii=S0378112717319928&tid=pdf-862d63e2-837f-48b5-9789-3cb1279af303&sid=c2d7e0846dd3e14bc119dcf44db80a341849gxrqa&type=client

Cliff notes here: https://www.google.com/amp/s/aspenj...erds-decline-researchers-point-to-recreation/


That being said, many hunters take a very combative and resentful demeanor towards other trail users and tout the idea of anti hunters purposefully interrupting hunting season by hiking and biking trails. What they don’t realize is the amount of recreation that takes place in CO all year long, but particularly in the summer and early fall months. Sept is a great month to recreate in the CO high country.

 

[Newtosavage]

Here is a link to a often cited study about recreational trail impacts.

https://pdf.sciencedirectassets.com/271259/1-s2.0-S0378112718X00024/1-s2.0-S0378112717319928/am.pdf?X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEEQaCXVzLWVhc3QtMSJHMEUCIQD8U7X1VauKvomXaNpgMmCCP2q1AFsCc5EBtqXUi%2FMOIQIgZNu7yjngteQ1L%2Bi%2FISVLz2ggCB811Zwh%2BcFK8V9un60q1QQI3P%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FARAFGgwwNTkwMDM1NDY4NjUiDKhu5qXQxJ6nqjB8sSqpBB%2BQTYNS6KdYwZuDCfE%2F7hiVoz74y%2F5l4%2Bl5%2Br4jAG3wqKV5YSiwo%2Bh4bAxqRWkFgvPC3G61QOHec29ZMD7Bk4INDfzABtn4d%2Bpf%2BEwU2a10gp1BKz7yG1%2BDZXFTHql9oyWewAE0zpj8IZ7q%2BSLbJ2DxcAZKQBc4Lsu00O3FNsSOBMYZA2Dpxlb3Z8c2J85EfhnulpZXFH1nhu3hAgMxDDRt8wdkXOtAMzAT9r69OITfJDXOFAzPjzZvy8lWlVz%2BykyIO44TT9B27K0mxyGwxII99HSk%2FGO5NZeSpKVhLBHXS1TXLoNnQ%2BhKAL%2FIdZpqycOXPQ5Zu2yNAA8m2vc699LmvbrVj6meutbmZAM54vXEhGCQuZ8zzBnys48O90xGD32nxTNqiWSk%2FoAd0yRUa%2BGmDWA2mr2ucJb5pRIBzFHHnsJ8LrN0BmdKBXzv74b5PF2OFnVvvkpabhuPOQofSLpI5EIyABl1FZ4m9fZneQfPEPZOm9AJOSUvAufWsuptibEClDS%2BW16LByChsHrah%2B4i39xw2deIJxIMy9RlDRx5abf1OaDy8FimUsm3i7cNfVIxb9UraUw5%2FODDRUyyyzTG4c3Bi9IMJou8zErVnewnavOHUHeeMF%2BQ21nyriznIcevUR6uFJF568iRl3%2BSLB1daMFRdJAoQ%2FSXCkSnWo7BCBIqz1dyZa1iOtV9r%2FiNNhP51IVW9hZTHL0XYzU5BpJ22PYhO7Dsv3Awm%2FWNmQY6qQHvJjbVYRVdAS1n38xEn%2BedlFhlu0VKlD4vjSMYlQMkh0LnLi%2BQHw2btl5AgDeosn%2F9R6X0H2beEb9haHYbmDYaufPx5HhkG22zYDGL2Mz6xXEuMXkxNyV8WIGijjFsFNtTuUVMyP26rhrNZFTOXb5bmi8wCCa7An%2BAK4OU9bSzteYaNu03meDYQxqMIMq3WfZ58MQS7Zf%2B8hPSID0kf%2FjQUlmYuN15mYDB&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Date=20220915T200704Z&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAQ3PHCVTYYICYIHCL%2F20220915%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Signature=f3cf1d81627500f323ae4a6ba2c74a3f7dc69d0aebf646f8cf848b8f41bf3771&hash=b11fceaf0db7c469297cf5f3f933fd833aa9272bd0af9a25555c6d3ff668af10&host=68042c943591013ac2b2430a89b270f6af2c76d8dfd086a07176afe7c76c2c61&pii=S0378112717319928&tid=pdf-862d63e2-837f-48b5-9789-3cb1279af303&sid=c2d7e0846dd3e14bc119dcf44db80a341849gxrqa&type=client

Cliff notes here: https://www.google.com/amp/s/aspenj...erds-decline-researchers-point-to-recreation/


That being said, many hunters take a very combative and resentful demeanor towards other trail users and tout the idea of anti hunters purposefully interrupting hunting season by hiking and biking trails. What they don’t realize is the amount of recreation that takes place in CO all year long, but particularly in the summer and early fall months. Sept is a great month to recreate in the CO high country.

No question, as I learned when I hunted over the Labor Day weekend once. I was fooled more than once thinking I had spotted some far off elk high above me, only to realize they were mountain bikers at like 11k feet!

 

[Newtosavage]

Read the abstract. No surprises there. That said, we've all seen a bull with a harem right next to a state highway (at least I have) more than once. And I've watched a herd graze and bed down within sight of the CDT that was filled with mountain bikers and hikers. I'd need more evidence to believe that the presence of recreational users impact calving and therefore population.

Regardless of if it does, do states like Colorado not have an overpopulation of elk already? Are we mad because we just want more and more elk to improve our odds when we hunt? When do the hunters begin to say there are too many elk? At what point does that ever happen?

 

[Traveler]

Read the abstract. No surprises there. That said, we've all seen a bull with a harem right next to a state highway (at least I have) more than once. And I've watched a herd graze and bed down within sight of the CDT that was filled with mountain bikers and hikers. I'd need more evidence to believe that the presence of recreational users impact calving and therefore population.

Regardless of if it does, do states like Colorado not have an overpopulation of elk already? Are we mad because we just want more and more elk to improve our odds when we hunt? When do the hunters begin to say there are too many elk? At what point does that ever happen?

 

[Newtosavage]

View attachment 452588

You chose not to answer the question I see. Or does it surprise you that someone doesn't just have a knee-jerk response blaming other recreational users because that's what us hunters are supposed to do.

 

[Banded_spooney]

When do the hunters begin to say there are too many elk? At what point does that ever happen?

Oh, it wasn’t rhetorical?

Never, we never say there are too many elk

 

[11boo]

Been up since the start, near GJ. Less hunters than usual, but still too many.

 

[Pikespeak]

Admittedly, mine is what we'd call in science an "anecdotal observation" and nothing more than one data point. Rather than criticize my observation, it would be helpful to everyone (me included,) if you could provide the data you say you've seen to support your position.

Why is it when Person A says something uninformed it’s on Person B that has put in the effort to educate themselves to enable Person A to continue to not put in any effort?

You have the knowledge of the entire world that has ever existed in your pocket and a 5 second google search away. Try it out. Then tell me your position.

 

[Pikespeak]

You chose not to answer the question I see. Or does it surprise you that someone doesn't just have a knee-jerk response blaming other recreational users because that's what us hunters are supposed to do.

Dude someone hand fed you an article because you were too lazy to do any research and now you are trying to say you won’t be convinced with one data source waiting for other people to hand you more info.

Get off your butt and educate yourself and look it up, there’s tons more studies out there. Until you do that you don’t have an opinion, you’re just blabbering.

I believe the earth is flat! No basis for my thought but I’m not convinced it’s not until you all put in the work and prove to me that my completely random thought is wrong. Lol, this is you.

 

[JeffRaines]

Not sure what the “right” or “fair” solution is.

Colorado already does something for rifle by making you pick/draw/whatever which "season" you hunt... do the same for archery and cap the tags so people can't just pile into second/third. Split up archery season into 4 separate seasons ~1 week long each.

 

[Buffalo0922]

Colorado already does something for rifle by making you pick/draw/whatever which "season" you hunt... do the same for archery and cap the tags so people can't just pile into second/third. Split up archery season into 4 separate seasons ~1 week long each.

I like this - have (3) 10 day seasons.

 

[Hnthrdr]

I like this - have (3) 10 day seasons.

If they did this they would need to take a serious look at moving muzzleloader, or we just cap NR tags like every other state

 

[Buffalo0922]

If they did this they would need to take a serious look at moving muzzleloader, or we just cap NR tags like every other state

Personally I say replace 1st rifle with a muzzleloader and split September into 3 archery seasons

 

[Newtosavage]

Dude someone hand fed you an article because you were too lazy to do any research and now you are trying to say you won’t be convinced with one data source waiting for other people to hand you more info.

Get off your butt and educate yourself and look it up, there’s tons more studies out there. Until you do that you don’t have an opinion, you’re just blabbering.

I believe the earth is flat! No basis for my thought but I’m not convinced it’s not until you all put in the work and prove to me that my completely random thought is wrong. Lol, this is you.

Actually, that article was far from pointing the finger at recreational users as the cause of a decline in elk population. It just indicated an avoidance buffer. Two very different things. The post I was responding to was one that indicated that recreational users impact calving, and thereby impact the elk population. Nothing I saw in that article confirmed that, and I also think it's relevant to ask what the problem is if we are as concerned about elk overpopulation as the state biologists are. But we're not concerned about overpopulation, because it means increased opportunity for us, even if it is at the expense of a healthier ecosystem.

 

[CoStick]

Actually, that article was far from pointing the finger at recreational users as the cause of a decline in elk population. It just indicated an avoidance buffer. Two very different things. The post I was responding to was one that indicated that recreational users impact calving, and thereby impact the elk population. Nothing I saw in that article confirmed that, and I also think it's relevant to ask what the problem is if we are as concerned about elk overpopulation as the state biologists are. But we're not concerned about overpopulation, because it means increased opportunity for us, even if it is at the expense of a healthier ecosystem.

I think we have established in other threads that people don’t influence the climate or ecosystem.

 

[Newtosavage]

I think we have established in other threads that people don’t influence the climate or ecosystem.

Glad that's decided then. I hope all the actual scientists make sure they give full credit to Rokslide forum comments in their literature citations.

 

[Newtosavage]

I think we have established in other threads that people don’t influence the climate or ecosystem.

We wiped out all apex predators and converted or changed 95% of native habitats but we don't influence ecosystems. LOL

I'm guessing you also vote for the party of "personal responsibility" too? Am I right?

 

[CoStick]

We wiped out all apex predators and converted or changed 95% of native habitats but we don't influence ecosystems. LOL

I'm guessing you also vote for the party of "personal responsibility" too? Am I right?

It was sarcasm….

 

[IdahoSwede]

I’m not saying that CO shouldn’t cut back the non resident percentage of tag allocations.


BUT, CO does have at least twice as many elk as all the other states listed. Numbers, especially when you get to this scale can say whatever you want them to say.


State, Tags Sold ,Elk Herd, Tags/elk
NM, 37000, 80000, .46
WY, 55817, 112900, .49
UT, 61359, 75000, .82
MT, 109570, 135000, .81
WA, 56199, 60000, .94
OR, 98977, 133000, .74
ID, 100000, 120000, .83
CO, 218782, 290000, .75


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good point.

 

[dreamingWest]

Some links that discuss declining herds in Colorado. Could be a repeat or linked to the study already shared in this thread:

TRCP - 9/2022
Vail Daily - 6/2018

I believe this is the MeatEater podcasts that touches the surface of the year-round recreation (loving it to death) effect on elk:
Ep. 121: A Man of the Law