Colorado Overcrowding Elk Hunting

[cnelk]

I saw this on the Colorado Bowhunters Association page and thought it was just too good not to share.


“Colorado resident archery OTC elk hunters are on the decline, nonresident archery elk OTC elk hunters are on the rise. In 2019 there were 1,000 more nonresident archery OTC elk hunters than resident OTC archery elk, in 2021 that grew to nearly 3000 more nonresidents OTC archery elk hunters vs residents. The other spreadsheet shows elk hunting pressure on Colorado public lands vs other western states and nonresident tag allocation. CPW is still taking comments on tag allocation.”

 

[cnelk]

Only 305 public acres/elk hunter in Colorado

Holy shit

 

[sndmn11]

The limited elk non-res allocation probably tells the reason why.

 

[Laramie]

I haven't looked into all the data but it would appear that data was cherry picked since there are weird gaps in years used. Have you looked at the years not listed?

Regardless of the point above, the elk pressure in Colorado is ridiculous. But, i guess, if people are willing to continue to pay for tags with crazy high hunting pressure, why not keep selling them the tags.

 

[dreamingWest]

Only 305 public acres/elk hunter in Colorado

Holy shit

Now think about that number when you add in all the dog walkers and pot smokers in September.

 

[Mtnmilsurp]

I would say comparing Colorado public land to what makes up a lot of Utah or New Mexico public land is apples to oranges. If only acres of elk habitat (versus square miles of dry dirt and rock) were compared that would be more a more meaningful comparison.

 

[fatlander]

I’m not saying that CO shouldn’t cut back the non resident percentage of tag allocations.


BUT, CO does have at least twice as many elk as all the other states listed. Numbers, especially when you get to this scale can say whatever you want them to say.


State, Tags Sold ,Elk Herd, Tags/elk
NM, 37000, 80000, .46
WY, 55817, 112900, .49
UT, 61359, 75000, .82
MT, 109570, 135000, .81
WA, 56199, 60000, .94
OR, 98977, 133000, .74
ID, 100000, 120000, .83
CO, 218782, 290000, .75


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[Overdrive]

I’m not saying that CO shouldn’t cut back the non resident percentage of tag allocations.


BUT, CO does have at least twice as many elk as all the other states listed. Numbers, especially when you get to this scale can say whatever you want them to say.


State, Tags Sold ,Elk Herd, Tags/elk
NM, 37000, 80000, .46
WY, 55817, 112900, .49
UT, 61359, 75000, .82
MT, 109570, 135000, .81
WA, 56199, 60000, .94
OR, 98977, 133000, .74
ID, 100000, 120000, .83
CO, 218782, 290000, .75


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Do they really have those numbers or does the CPW inflate the numbers to draw the hunters to spend the money? I'd say their numbers are way off, but their pocket book is right on track.

 

[Newtosavage]

Now think about that number when you add in all the dog walkers and pot smokers in September.

What I was thinking. I hunted the ML elk season one time and could not believe how many non-hunters there were in the mountains. Good news is the elk didn't care. I was hunting a herd that was within eyeshot of groups of hikers and mountain bikers on a well work popular trail. I even used that trail to get close to the herd every morning and afternoon and was surprised at how may "good luck, hope you get one!" comments I got from those hikers and mountain bikers. Nobody thought it was strange at all that I was going up a well used hiking trail to get to my hunt area.

I want to be in one of two situations when I hunt public land.

1) left completely alone to hunt undisturbed animals, or
2) have enough other hunters out there that they move the herds around routinely and everyone gets a chance soon or later.

I also think that elk and mule deer tolerate people out in the field a whole lot more than us hunters give them credit for.

 

[fatlander]

Do they really have those numbers or does the CPW inflate the numbers to draw the hunters to spend the money? I'd say their numbers are way off, but their pocket book is right on track.

If that logic holds true, it’s all relative, therefore moot.


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[dreamingWest]

I also think that elk and mule deer tolerate people out in the field a whole lot more than us hunters give them credit for.

I hope you're correct. I think the CPW studies around Vail suggested otherwise. I think the explosion in year around backcountry recreation is worse for elk than the non-resident hunters. I haven't hunted Colorado for a few years, but the reports I was getting from friends hunting some of my old favorite spots were depressing.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

As others have pointed out, the ratio of elk to hunters and acres of elk habitat to hunters are more meaningful metrics. Elk densities vary widely across these states (and within these states). That said, I'm in favor of making Colorado OTC tags unit-specific and possibly imposing OTC caps on some units. Capping nonresident OTC tags at 10,000 total (≈25% of historical NR OTC sales) as recommended in the footnotes above seems too severe a cut though.

 

[cnelk]

Anyone notice it took an Open Records Request to get this information?

 

[fatlander]

Anyone notice it took an Open Records Request to get this information?

That’s nothing to be concerned about.

FOIA Law, and Individual states versions of FOIA, usually require a FOIA request for very large amounts of data and/or for data that hasn’t yet been compiled in that context and that isn’t already published for the public. That way they can bill the time for compiling and producing said data.



For example: Complete hypothetical and completely unrelated categories of data.

I can get elk harvest numbers from cpw without a FOIA request because it’s readily available and published to the public. I can maybe get bald eagle estimates from cpw (let’s assume it’s the same as above, readily available and published.)

But I can’t get elk harvest numbers per bald eagle unless I compile the data on my own or pay CPW do it for me.

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[Huntin_GI]

I haven't looked into all the data but it would appear that data was cherry picked since there are weird gaps in years used. Have you looked at the years not listed?

Regardless of the point above, the elk pressure in Colorado is ridiculous. But, i guess, if people are willing to continue to pay for tags with crazy high hunting pressure, why not keep selling them the tags.

I sat in on a recent CPW round table and the years in question were asked about. Nonresident archery is simply trending upward and has been without fail since 2017/18.

 

[BBob]

Anyone notice it took an Open Records Request to get this information?

Are you suggesting they were attempting to hide it? Doubt it, most states are the same. When NR pressure rapidly hit us hard years ago we had to request the records to see what the numbers were. That started the conversation about how to limit NR pressure here in AZ. Basically we ended up with the 90/10 and got this whole ball rolling. That was something like 26 ish or so years ago? NM followed shortly after and it's been slowly making it's way down the road.

 

[Huntin_GI]

Anyone notice it took an Open Records Request to get this information?

Yes. It isn't published for a reason but the resident voice is starting to have an impact. If you talk to any commissioner at the state level they are aware of what is going on and at least provide lip service that acknowledges the problem.

 

[cnelk]

No I’m not suggesting anything of the sort.

What I am suggesting is that there is a lot of information to be had, it just has to be asked for.

After working in a govt job for 25 years, I’m well aware of what an Open Records Request is - and how the game is played.

Are you suggesting they were attempting to hide it? Doubt it, most states are the same. When NR pressure hit us years ago we had to request the records to see what the numbers were. That started the conversation about how to limit NR pressure here in AZ. Basically we ended up with the 90/10 and got this whole ball rolling. That was something like 26 ish or so years ago?

 

[tdhanses]

Kind of crazy, CO supposedly has so many more elk then the other states, yet a much lower percentage of the state is even public land, would be nice if the included actual elk range on public per state.

 

[Coveyleader]

What's even more sad is that of the almost 36k bowhunters, we have less than 2k Colorado Bowhunter members. It goes to show you, all these shows, wannabes, experts have little regard for bowhunting in CO other than exploiting it for gain.