Colorado Elk Draw - Is it rigged?

[Mighty Mouse]

Sometimes I wonder just what the heck happens sometimes with some of these draws. I saw one unit this year where a resident used 13 points on a 6 point unit, and DIDN'T draw. The same unit shows 8 residents with 9 points applied, but only 7 drew the tag while many others with less points drew. And you can see these "anomalies" in every year of the stats pages.

I've always assumed that those apparent anomalies are an artifact of group applications. If the 13 point guy in that example applied as a group with a 5 point buddy, he wouldn't get the tag and I think he would show up in the stats as an unsuccessful 13 point applicant (though he was actually treated as having 5 points for the purposes of the draw).

 

[cnelk]

Sometimes I wonder just what the heck happens sometimes with some of these draws. I saw one unit this year where a resident used 13 points on a 6 point unit, and DIDN'T draw. The same unit shows 8 residents with 9 points applied, but only 7 drew the tag while many others with less points drew. And you can see these "anomalies" in every year of the stats pages.

That happened to my buddy two years ago. He put in for a 6 point tag with 7 points and didn't draw, while several with 6 points did draw. The DOW couldn't or wouldn't explain how that happens. With their "all internet" applications now, it's impossible to screw up your app......unless you just apply for the wrong unit or hunt. The system won't accept other errors when you apply.

This could be a Credit Card issue. They didnt update their CC or for whatever reason they didnt pay.

It shows they drew, but doesnt show they didnt pay

 

[Elktaco]

Your hunting partner is clueless. I can't believe the number of people who apply for tags and don't really have a clue how it works.

 

[Jethro]

I've always assumed that those apparent anomalies are an artifact of group applications. If the 13 point guy in that example applied as a group with a 5 point buddy, he wouldn't get the tag and I think he would show up in the stats as an unsuccessful 13 point applicant (though he was actually treated as having 5 points for the purposes of the draw).

That’s correct. It’s the group applications that make the draw reports look like the higher point holders didn’t draw a tag.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

This could be a Credit Card issue. They didnt update their CC or for whatever reason they didnt pay.

It shows they drew, but doesnt show they didnt pay

The payment deadline isn't until June 11, so I don't think failure to pay could be reflected in the draw stats.

 

[5MilesBack]

I'm pretty sure those rows/columns include all choices from 1st to 4th. So the example 13 point applicant doesn't necessarily mean they put in as first choice, if that is correct.

Good point. But that still doesn't explain the guys that actually put in for first choice with more than needed points and still don't draw, like my buddy two years ago. I've known a few guys that had that happen to them. But I wouldn't call that a rigged system.......more likely a system with a glitch of some sort.

 

[PassCreek]

Good point. But that still doesn't explain the guys that actually put in for first choice with more than needed points and still don't draw, like my buddy two years ago. I've known a few guys that had that happen to them. But I wouldn't call that a rigged system.......more likely a system with a glitch of some sort.

Was it in a area with the hybrid draw?

 

[Jacack]

It's just the "new normal " to western hunting. I hate that term but it's true
Unfortunately

The days of old standby tags in low demand are about gone.

I didn't draw a co 2nd choice deer tag this year after 6 years straight

 

[5MilesBack]

Was it in a area with the hybrid draw?

No.

 

[camelcluch]

I don’t think it rigged but the people managing it are questionable. It seems that every year there is an issue. This year was nothing different.

 

[cnelk]

The payment deadline isn't until June 11, so I don't think failure to pay could be reflected in the draw stats.
View attachment 295371

Still have to pay for the qualifying license and app fee using a credit card.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Still have to pay for the qualifying license and app fee using a credit card.

True, but aren't those payments required at the time of application (not after being drawn)?

 

[Elktaco]

Sometimes I wonder just what the heck happens sometimes with some of these draws. I saw one unit this year where a resident used 13 points on a 6 point unit, and DIDN'T draw. The same unit shows 8 residents with 9 points applied, but only 7 drew the tag while many others with less points drew. And you can see these "anomalies" in every year of the stats pages.

That happened to my buddy two years ago. He put in for a 6 point tag with 7 points and didn't draw, while several with 6 points did draw. The DOW couldn't or wouldn't explain how that happens. With their "all internet" applications now, it's impossible to screw up your app......unless you just apply for the wrong unit or hunt. The system won't accept other errors when you apply.

BS story

 

[sndmn11]

I wonder if a lot of those stories are people who don't understand how the draw actually works in regards to first/second/third/fourth choices. I've heard people complain for years that X tag takes 1 point to draw, but they have many more points and "can't draw in their own backyard". A little investigation reveals they put in for a point as first choice every year and X tag as second choice.

 

[TraderMike]

My personal experience would seem to indicate that there is no preference with regard to when the application is submitted, to answer the OP's question.
In 2020, my group of three applied for either sex tags in a unit in which the 2019 draw awarded every applicant a tag on their second choice. We picked up a point on first choice and were awarded our tags on our second choice. Win-win. I checked the draw stats and saw that only 45% of second choices for this hunt were successful, which clearly indicates that the number of second choice, and likely first choice applicants increased. We got lucky. We applied with several weeks before deadline.
This year we applied for same hunt with same strategy knowing the odds for pulling this off were likely going to be even more diminished. We applied with 2-3 days left before the "original'' deadline and got lucky. Again...
Good luck with your OTC hunt planning! Learning a new area is another dimension of "fun" as far as I am concerned.... and if you are successful you will experience a more enhanced feeling of accomplishment. YMMV

 

[Mighty Mouse]

I'm pretty sure those rows/columns include all choices from 1st to 4th. So the example 13 point applicant doesn't necessarily mean they put in as first choice, if that is correct.

The pre/post-draw data by preference point level in the draw reports is only for 1st choice. I don't think CPW publishes preference point data for 2nd through 4th choice applications/results, which makes sense because points are only used to award 1st choice tags.

 

[sndmn11]

The pre/post-draw data by preference point level in the draw reports is only for 1st choice. I don't think CPW publishes PP data for 2nd through 4th choice applications/results, which makes sense because points are only used to award 1st choice tags.
View attachment 295565

Thank you!

 

[IrkedCitizen]

I've always assumed that those apparent anomalies are an artifact of group applications. If the 13 point guy in that example applied as a group with a 5 point buddy, he wouldn't get the tag and I think he would show up in the stats as an unsuccessful 13 point applicant (though he was actually treated as having 5 points for the purposes of the draw).

This ^^

Here is a scenario. Dad has enough points to draw but doesn't want to go until his kid draws the tag. So they put in as a group and will continue to do so until they draw together. Every unsuccessful year they both accrue points.

One way to check this is to see if the year before someone for the same unit applied with 12pp and didn't draw. Then go to the previous year and see if it is the same with 11pp. Granted they could have just applied for first choice points but you get the idea.

 

[5MilesBack]

BS story

If only it was a story, just the facts man. Call CPW and ask them if this happens. They know it happens. If it was just a story, I wouldn't have posted it. I used to think that others saying the same thing had done something wrong on their application or whatever........until it happened to my buddy. It's all there in his account......showing exactly what he applied for with 7 points and didn't draw, yet 13 people drew with 6 points.

Turned out to be a blessing though.

 

[Dirtbag]

I used to be good friends with a CPW manager. We got to talking about the draws, how he cant draw a tag for the unit he manages, and the rigged system. His quote " If you knew the idiots we have in charge you'd have a better understanding of how we couldn't even pull off rigging the system".