Colorado can kill wolves that kill livestock

[cnelk]

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Check out this article from Coloradoan:

Colorado gets final go-ahead to kill wolves that kill livestock

Colorado gets final go-ahead to kill wolves that kill livestock

Colorado Parks and Wildlife plans to release wolves it is obtaining from Oregon to launch its reintroduction program next month.

www.coloradoan.com

 

[TaperPin]

Unfortunately in areas with wolves the number and behavior of elk and deer will dramatically change.
I like wolves, but they do eat a lot and multiply quickly. That first group will eat about 200 animals the first year, 400 year 2 or 3, 800 year 5 or 6, 1600 year 8 or 9, 3200 year 11 or 12, 6400 year 14 or 15, 12,800 year 17 or 18, and well over 20k by the end of the first two decades.

 

[justin davis]

Well that’s a little good news

 

[MallardSX2]

If I see one side-eying a cow while I am out hunting does that mean I can take its ass out?

 

[displacedtexan]

Unfortunately in areas with wolves the number and behavior of elk and deer will dramatically change.
I like wolves, but they do eat a lot and multiply quickly. That first group will eat about 200 animals the first year, 400 year 2 or 3, 800 year 5 or 6, 1600 year 8 or 9, 3200 year 11 or 12, 6400 year 14 or 15, 12,800 year 17 or 18, and well over 20k by the end of the first two decades.

Is that why there's so few elk, deer and bison in Yellowstone?

Yeah, wolves will change deer and elk behavior and kill some.

But they coexisted for how many centuries in how much of this continent before Europeans extripated the wolves?

 

[The Guide]

Is that why there's so few elk, deer and bison in Yellowstone?

Yeah, wolves will change deer and elk behavior and kill some.

But they coexisted for how many centuries in how much of this continent before Europeans extripated the wolves?

For those same centuries prey species also didn't have roads, fences, and other human made habitat influences that didn't allow them to move through the environment naturally. Their populations weren't artificially influenced by agriculture or housing spread. Things today aren't the same as 50 years ago let alone a century ago when the wolves were removed from the western landscape.

Jay

 

[5MilesBack]

Is that why there's so few elk, deer and bison in Yellowstone?

For elk, yes. There were estimated 20k elk in the Yellowstone ecosystem before the wolves introduction. Then they dropped to 5k in short order.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Why is it “Europeans”? seems like you are paining in really broad strokes… there weren’t any Mexicans or Native Americans shooting & poisoning them?

 

[CMP70306]

Is that why there's so few elk, deer and bison in Yellowstone?

Yeah, wolves will change deer and elk behavior and kill some.

But they coexisted for how many centuries in how much of this continent before Europeans extripated the wolves?

Those animals are also not being hunted by people, you add that into the mix with a yearly harvest and every animal killed by wolves removes a few more tags.

One pack of 8 wolves kills something like 160 deer a year, depending on how they allocate the tags that could be several hundred tags removed from circulation.

 

[TaperPin]

Is that why there's so few elk, deer and bison in Yellowstone?

Yeah, wolves will change deer and elk behavior and kill some.

But they coexisted for how many centuries in how much of this continent before Europeans extripated the wolves?

If you went back to Louis and Clark, before barbed wire, there wasn‘t the modern practice of putting out fires and letting brush and trees grow so thick - the oldest historic mountain photos compared to the exact same spot today, show far more open space and far less brush - the huge amount of grass covered land extended well up into and past the foothills and was ideal for elk and bison. There were also a huge number of wolves and bears - both multiply until limited by their food source. Same for Yellowstone and same for Colorado.

Rifles and barbed wire.

I like wolves a lot and wouldn’t mind hunting them, but the elk numbers won’t be managed by hunting nearly as much if wolves are allowed to multiply until their food source limits their pack sizes.

 

[TaperPin]

Is that why there's so few elk, deer and bison in Yellowstone?

Yeah, wolves will change deer and elk behavior and kill some.

But they coexisted for how many centuries in how much of this continent before Europeans extripated the wolves?

It’s funny - growing up in Wyoming before wolves I always assumed grizzlies were the apex predator, but watching bears and wolves interact there‘s no doubt wolves rule the landscape. Even if a bear makes the kill, it better eat quick because wolves easily drive it off. In the morning a grizzly will be the first to a dead buffalo, wolves sleep in a bit and definitely take their time getting to the buffalo and the grizz won’t put up much of a fight. Grizzlies are essentially a scavenger and have developed big teeth and toughness to defend against wolves as much as anything. Black bears are scared and paranoid in wolf areas - you’ll see them unnaturally close to roads and constantly scanning for trouble.

 

[The Guide]

It’s funny - growing up in Wyoming before wolves I always assumed grizzlies were the apex predator, but watching bears and wolves interact there‘s no doubt wolves rule the landscape. Even if a bear makes the kill, it better eat quick because wolves easily drive it off. In the morning a grizzly will be the first to a dead buffalo, wolves sleep in a bit and definitely take their time getting to the buffalo and the grizz won’t put up much of a fight. Grizzlies are essentially a scavenger and have developed big teeth and toughness to defend against wolves as much as anything. Black bears are scared and paranoid in wolf areas - you’ll see them unnaturally close to roads and constantly scanning for trouble.

Could this be why grizzlies have seemed to gotten so much more aggressive in the last 20 years? Wolves are putting biological pressure on them?

Jay

 

[TaperPin]

Could this be why grizzlies have seemed to gotten so much more aggressive in the last 20 years? Wolves are putting biological pressure on them?

Jay

They seem about the same to me - in the days of social media everything seems to be much more exaggerated and current. Reading a history of Yellowstone park incidents, there were always a constant string of people getting mauled.

Out of the park management of bears has changed and that might allow more problem bears to survive than in years past. It’s not publicized, but bears were not always relocated, just put down. In the age of everyone has a video camera and telephoto lens carried 24x7, and any official action has an electronic paper trail, known bad bears are being dropped off in remote areas. That’s been going on forever, but now there’s more incentive. I talked with a helicopter pilot who does a lot of flights for wildlife agencies, and it was an eye opener. Since that conversation I always call around inquiring about problem bears where I’ll be hunting. The forest rangers know, wildlife biologists and game wardens know, even if they pussy foot around and don’t come out and say, “Don‘t go there, we just dumped a problem bear,” what they say or don’t say means a lot.

There‘s always the generational gap, and kids don’t listen to the old guys, and in the age of social media kids are getting much more of their information online. The same factors that contributed to bear attacks 50 years ago are still getting hunters today. It’s cool to learn about elk hunting, and everyone feels invincible carrying a 9mm pistol that won’t stop a crackhead in your house, let alone bear, but it’s not as fun to listen to the old guys that say don’t walk where you can’t see - there may be a sow with cubs right around the next bush. I’ve been the gungho elk hunter walking into grizzly country in the dark, thinking sticking to established horse trails was safe, until the year a packhorse freaked out had to be put down - it seemed every bear in the valley took turns eating and sleeping next to it.

 

[Mojave]

Why is it “Europeans”? seems like you are paining in really broad strokes… there weren’t any Mexicans or Native Americans shooting & poisoning them?

Mexicans are Europeans as well. Google ethnicities of Mexico.

Mexican is more of a nationality than a race. Having spent a lot of time on the border, they have diverse ethnic backgrounds.

Most have a mix of aboriginal North American and mostly southern European ancestry. Some are 80-100% Spanish, some are the decendents of slaves. There are Greek Mexicans, Asian Mexicans, and German (mostly Hutterites) Mexicans.

Like the rest of North American aboriginal "native" (no one is really native, they have just been there longer. Humans are not native to North America) peoples got killed off, married the Europeans .

 

[Felix1776]

Mexicans are Europeans as well. Google ethnicities of Mexico.

Mexican is more of a nationality than a race. Having spent a lot of time on the border, they have diverse ethnic backgrounds.

Most have a mix of aboriginal North American and mostly southern European ancestry. Some are 80-100% Spanish, some are the decendents of slaves. There are Greek Mexicans, Asian Mexicans, and German (mostly Hutterites) Mexicans.

Like the rest of North American aboriginal "native" (no one is really native, they have just been there longer. Humans are not native to North America) peoples got killed off, married the Europeans .

By that logic, white Europeans are actually Africans given that we know the earliest human ancestors emigrated out of Africa before spreading across the globe. Which, by extension, also means your European Mexicans are also actually African European Mexicans. This is a fun game.

 

[TaperPin]

With the gigantic amount of dna taken from almost every old bone dug up all over the world, it’s quite enlightening to listen to lectures detailing the large movements of peoples in the Bronze and Iron Ages. Talk about the wild wild west - from the Huns, to the Vikings, to the boat people, to the Turks, etc., the world was a rough place.

I dated a gal and her mom was the whitest racist white lady on the block - a 23 and Me dna test showed she had a decent amount of North African dna - I still smile just remembering the day she opened up the envelope. Money well spent. Lol

 

[BigAl!]

Y’all sound like CNN. Bringing up race on a topic about wolves

 

[Hnthrdr]

Y’all sound like CNN. Bringing up race on a topic about wolves

Haha never brought it up, just wanted to clarify when a someone threw out “Europeans” expatriated wolves. I think there are skilled hunters and trappers of all races and backgrounds… it’s not like the Punjab folks damn near exterminated tigers oh wait or middle easterners killed all the lions there oh wait… I just smile and laugh that we have it so damn easy in our country that we can sit around and do stupid shit like bring back alpha predators that very few people who it actually impacts even want, wonder if they talk about reintroducing lions in Syria or Israel…

 

[BS270WSM]

Wish this was the case everywhere