Cold!

[Scoot]

While my buddies slept warm and comfy, I was cold in my tent this year. The temps got down into the low 20's at night and I was very cold, even with several layers of clothes on. I'm a cold sleeper, which is likely the biggest issue and not that I've got faulty gear. This year I was in a Big Agnes Copper Spur UL2 and I slept on a BAIC pad and in a Big Agnes Crater (650 fill 15 degree bag). I also had a Sea to Summit bag liner in the sleeping bag to add a little more warmth. Here are my thoughts/plans for what to do:

1) New sleeping bag
2) New sleeping pad???
3) New tent???

Regarding #1, I'm looking seriously at a Kifaru Slick (wide, regular) 0 degree bag. Can anyone talk me out of or into this bag?
REgarding #2, is there a different pad that would work better for keeping my sorry butt warm at night? I don't want to sacrifice a ton of weight, but would happily give up a couple ounces to help stay warmer. Would a Big Agnes Dual Insulated Aircore be better for me?
Regarding #3, there's a fair bit of air that moves through my Copper Spur. I really like the tent though. Might I be better off in a tent that seals off airflow better, like a Hilleberg Akto? I like the size/weight ratio of the Copper Spur- it's nice and spacious and reasonably light for that amount of space. The Akto is noticably smaller, but would it keep me warmer? Any info about this would be appreciated!
Thanks,
Scoot

 

[hflier]

Big Agnes Insulated Q core or Exped Matt with a good Western Mountaineering bag and you won't be cold again. If its real cold put a foam matt under the inflatable. You want airflow in the tent or you will have condensation and that will cause wet gear issues.

 

[hflier]

I had a Big Agnes 10 Degree bag and I wasn't impressed. I was cold when it was 40 degrees out.

 

[Brock A]

Man, it sounds like you have a pretty solid system. I am surprised you get cold. I used the BAIC last year and know its a warm pad. I also have used a Fly Creek UL2 a couple nights this year and its pretty similar to the Copper Spur. No experience with the bag though. Sleep with a beanie? I don't think you'll see a huge increase in warmth by changing tents. I might be wrong though.

 

[jm1607]

I'm with you, I get colder than most people. At night and during the day. Probably because I'm a Texan I can wrench on my car in 105 degree heat plus humidity but when it gets into the 30's I'm a wuss.

Anyway, I think the biggest difference would be Xanax! The second biggest would be a pad change. Look for something with a high R-value. I have a Big Agnes Q-core SL. I think the R-value is 4.5. You can definitely get pads with a higher value. I think some of the Exped down pads are in the 5-7 range...

You're right on the sleeping bag. Get something in the 0 degrees range that's quality, like the Kifaru. I have a Sea to Summit and it works well. Expensive though, but so is the Kifaru.

I don't think a new tent will make a big difference temperature wise unless you go the stove route.

Those are just my personal findings..

 

[Kotaman]

I've been a BA user for years, running the Lost Ranger (15) and the Storm Front (0)...I feel BA bags temp ratings are WAY off. I get cold in my Stormfront at 40 degrees. Monday I will have a brand new Kifaru 0 degree slick bag to be used with a new BA Q core SL, hoping this cures my cold sleeping.

 

[jquarnberg]

I was cold this last week in my big agnes lost ranger. I love the concept of sliding the pad into the sleeve on the bag but Im starting to think the lack of insulation the bottom is a bad idea...

 

[hunting1]

I like BA bags alot but the 650 loft seem to be a little over rated on temp. The Pomer Hoit and the Mystic are better bags and have better loft. With this said i have a Grouse Mtn that is 650 and think it is pretty close to rating. Maybe just got a good one or it is on par with my Mystic.

 

[squeekieslayer]

i think that a lot of people try to save weight on a sleeping pad and end up putting a pad in a BA bag that is not big enough. Essentially, i feel that with the BA system, you need to find a pad that covers the entire bottom. Saving weight with short or narrow pads can lead to cold. I have the BA lost ranger and my wife uses that with an older thermarest.... last weekend it was in the mid 20's at night up high where we were and she didnt complain.... trust me, that means it was fairly warm.

I think that the BA system definately has its bonuses, but using that system means that you really have to make sure you have the perfect pad. I guess what i am saying is that the bag ratings are not off as much as people are claiming, you just have the wrong pad for the situation, maybe i am wrong though.

Honestly it is part of what i like about the BA system, i have a 15 degree bag that i can use to 15 degrees, but with a regular BA air pad i can still stay cool up to temps that would burn me out in a regular bag.


JOe

 

[Backpack Hunter]

More than likely the more warmth for your buck will be spent on a different sleeping bag. Something along the lines of Kifaru, Western Mountaineering, Marmot, etc. will probably provide more warmth.
The only real way to add more warmth from your sleeping pad is to add quite a lot of weight by going with the BA Dual Core or Exped Downmats or something similar. Or you could add a little weight and more bulk with one of the closed cell foam pads.

Don't forget about how much heat is lost thru your head either, a good beanie can add some degrees to your system.

 

[Rizzy]

Your tent is fine, it will not make a significant difference anyway. There are 2 things to try out, get a better bag or get a pad with a higher R value.

The BA IAC is a good pad, however in the lower 20's you will probably want the BA Dual IAC if you want to stay with the BA system. Remember the BA bags have no insulation on the bottom, so you have to match the pad to the conditions. I have the BA DIAC pad and use it for mid twenties and below with my zero slick bag. It is twice the size and weight as my neo air, but a lot warmer.

You can keep your IAC pad and get a better sleeping bag. 650 fill is the bottom end of quality and 15 deg is pushing it for the rocky mountains proper. I would loose faith in that bag by about mid September here in Idaho. Since your a cold sleeper, use a buffer of 20 deg. I am a cold sleeper also and have found that in hard freeze conditions this is what it takes for me.

As the temperature gets farther away from freezing it gets exponentially (not linear) harder to stay warm. The difference between 25 and 20, is not the same as the difference between 35 and 30. This complicates things and I think this is where most of the manufacturers and us users go wrong because they/we extrapolate down through the temperatures ranges based on performance of a known warmer temperature.

The Slick bag is a good one, I would recommend it. My 0 Slick has gotten me down to mid teens to mid twenties depending on conditions, like pad, back of truck, frosty canyon bottom, humidity, etc. Since you already have a warmer weather bag, I would recommend you get a -20 Slick, this is what my next one will probably be. It may seem overboard, but if your a cold sleeper it should be just right. The ratio of "my bag is to cold" to "my bag is to warm" issues is very lopsided

 

[Yellowknife]

I'm going to differ with some of the above guys, and say a four season tent will add some noticeable warmth. Especially if there is any wind. That's based on using both "drafty" tents and Hillebergs quit a bit. However, I'll agree with them and say it's probably not your best bang for the buck compared to the bag and pad upgrades.

As something else to consider, sometimes the clothes you are wearing can actually make you colder. This is frequently the case for me. If I overdress, ESPECIALLY with synthetic clothing, I can easily sweat and then become chilled and fight that all night. Best case for me is usually to wear just a light layer of natural fibers (wool or silk). If it gets cold and I have to layer up with more than that inside the bag, it becomes a balancing act that I frequently loose.

Yk

 

[kaboku68]

Put your puffy in the bottom of your bag by your feet.

 

[Buckman]

I run a Marmot Couloir It has like a 7 in. loft. I also use a B/A Q core and put a thin foam pad under all of it. It has worked for me down to 17 degrees. I am cold a lot to so I know where you are coming from. I also cut dead ferns and put them around the base of the tent to cut down on the wind blowing through.

 

[gelton]

I am on the other end of the spectrum - wouldn't call myself a hot sleeper but I definitely am not a cold sleeper. While my northface 4 season is bulky and heavy, its also bombproof and warm as all get out. As Aron says in his article about high country shelters he has this to say about 4 season tents- "They are generally heavier than the other options in this article, but when the weather turns bad and temps drop, you will be thanking the hunting Gods that you packed one!"

In fact I was considering moving to a tipee or tarp and after the beating these boys took from the rain storms during archery and all of the stories about wet gear, I will continue to lug my 8lb 4 season tent around w/ me every where I go.

 

[mtnwrunner]

Right before you go to bed, heat up water to boiling, put it in a Nalgene bottle, then put that bottle in a sock or something to insulate it and put it in the bottom of your sleeping bag. Trust me, you will love it, your feet will be warm and the water will be warm in the morning. Some folks just sleep cold and I've told a lot of people about the water bottle trick and they still use it.

Randy

 

[Lawnboi]

A warm bag would help, but if theres nothing stopping the wind it will most likely be futile. A 4 season tent, or bivy to cut the wind would definetly help if your feeling the draft. Convection from the wind will chill anything pretty quick. Anyone who has ever spent any time in a treestand in cold weather would know that.

For pads. When it gets really cold ill use my zlite under my air pad. Those air pads are nice, but I roll around a lot, and it seems everytime I put my legs/feet in a different place, or move the air in the pad, it cools off. the zlite underneath should help.

For a bag, a 15* rated bag, regardless of manufacturer, imo is going to be a bit on the cool side for 20*

The Nalgene trick works well, Moisture will accumulate where the bottle is so be aware of that. Iv also filled up a 2l drom bag full of hot water and used it as a pillow, that worked pretty slick.

I like to wear my Sitka traverse stuff to bed, If you layer up too much your not doing a lot of good. Your better off putting your cloths in spots like the foot box or around your shoulders and arms to fill the air gaps in your bag that will make you cold.

For real cold iv got the tipi and stove, Going to bed, and waking up warm and dry makes quite the difference.

 

[flyinsquirel]

Sounds like you need a 0 bag to me. If you're skinny like me, and have no natural insulation you'll get cold easy. It's a body mass vs. surface area issue. I have a BA 15 down bag and I can only take it down to around 25-30 before I start getting cold. To make it to 15, I need at least a 0 bag no matter what pad I'm on. Even then I cheat and toss a couple of those small heat packs in the bottom of my bag. I also find that I sleep warmer in just a light t-shirt vs. wearing all my long johns and what not. Wearing a beanie will also make a noticeable difference.

 

[Kay9Cop]

I would try putting a z-lite under your current set up. The cold ground can really chill an inflated pad and the closed cell foam will stop that.

 

[bobhunts]

Some bags perform and others do not. I have not had good luck with BA bags so far. Number one reason is if your pad fails so does your comfort and insulation under you. Plus the bags are over rated temp wise imo. Tried out the Sierra Designs Zissou 6 or 8 ( Cannot remember ) in Alaska on a Moose hunt and it was better but not up to the bar for the money spent on a Dri-down bag. I do not know the temps while I was there but I could see my breath in the tent when going to bed. Not cold after getting in and in fact real cozy. But later in the night it seemed the temps settled into the bag after being sedentary while being in bed. I am not a cold sleeper in fact usually the opposite. I too am looking at a slick bag or another couple of brands. Bob.