Cold bore zero versus (very) Hot bore zero “test”

[T-Stick]

You continue to add caveats to make this complicated. It’s not. Barrel temp shouldn’t matter. Environmental temperature shouldn’t matter. Primary use of the rifle should matter.
Cold bore vs hot bore doesn’t matter.

People ask why and I explain how I try to duplicate field conditions -- whether they matter or not. I am not promoting or caveating what I do.

 

[Macintosh]

whether they matter or not

I enjoy doing the work to become better at something. But I dont care to do tedious stuff that doesnt matter. Shooting is fun, but on the “shooting fun-o-meter” zeroing is tedious, so while I wont take shortcuts I will do it the most efficient way I can. I enjoy testing things myself to see if something does indeed matter, and I appreciate stuff like this post that deep-dives on whether it matters. But if something doesnt matter then I’ll do it the more efficient way and spend that time and energy on something that provides benefit to me or that I enjoy more.

 

[Axlrod]

Oh absolutely.

If only deer allowed warm up shots…..

ETA: you’re taking a lot of crap for a new guy. Keep it up.

I have fired a "warning" shot a couple times!

 

[HuntHarder]

People ask why and I explain how I try to duplicate field conditions -- whether they matter or not. I am not promoting or caveating what I do.

Next time you shoot, you should try a few different methods. 1 that is cool is having 5-10 different targets and firing the same shot at each target. I.e. target 1 is the 1st shot of each shot strings, target 2 is the second and so on. Then see if you have any data to prove or disprove. 10 targets, 10 shots is what some on here like. I am sure 7-8 shows the same data.

 

[HighUintas]

I blows my mind this thread is still going, with some finding the information as ‘an epiphany’.

At first glance, while interesting, my take away is… If I miss the first 30 shots, at an elk of a lifetime – I can still keep shooting, cause the rifle is “prolly still on”. A lot of talk about junk rifles too, but those results aren't here.

As a Hunter, I basically want to know 1 thing – “Can I predict where my bullet will be, 600yds away, with high confidence?” And not when the rifle is hot enough to ‘fry an egg on!’

So, I go to the range, over the course of many days, and many conditions, (cool misty mornings, to days with a Heat mirage) taking note of those conditions, and where the pattern lands (maybe 10 shots, rifle cooling between shots). Then, review those days and conditions, before thinking of making an adjustment.

My findings have led to one important thing, and I didn’t even see it mentioned here, maybe I missed it.
After cleaning my gun, the very first shot, is the worst.

So, I know, to Not go into the mountains, with my every accurately sighted in rifle – “in a totally clean state”.
I’ll clean it, then fire a round, to foul the barrel first!

@Carl Ross ....can you link your no cleaning test for this gentleman?

 

[Carl Ross]

@Carl Ross ....can you link your no cleaning test for this gentleman?

If he wants to read it, it's here: https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/6-dasher-no-barrel-cleaning-test.387679/

I'm still not as set on never cleaning as some, but one thing EVERYONE I referenced agrees on is to not trust a clean bore. Even the short range benchrest guys who report cleaning between each 5 shot group shoot a fouler.

One time I was doing a "training" the day before general rifle opened. The client showed up with a freshly cleaned rifle and after 3-4 shots landing a few inches from the point of aim it walked to the center and showed its actual cone of fire. We shot for a while, finished up, and he mentioned he was going to go clean his rifle before his hunt! It took some convincing to talk him out of it...

 

[journeyman713]

If he wants to read it, it's here: https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/6-dasher-no-barrel-cleaning-test.387679/

I'm still not as set on never cleaning as some, but one thing EVERYONE I referenced agrees on is to not trust a clean bore. Even the short range benchrest guys who report cleaning between each 5 shot group shoot a fouler.

One time I was doing a "training" the day before general rifle opened. The client showed up with a freshly cleaned rifle and after 3-4 shots landing a few inches from the point of aim it walked to the center and showed its actual cone of fire. We shot for a while, finished up, and he mentioned he was going to go clean his rifle before his hunt! It took some convincing to talk him out of it...

Exactly my point.
When dissecting 'a wandering cold bore' in 400 posts, it's weird it never came up.
It's worth more than most of what has been posted.

Use the basic 'let gun cool between shots" and
" FYI:
The first shot after you clean you gun, will most likely be the outlier."

Some people...

 

[Marbles]

Use the basic 'let gun cool between shots"

Why? Other than mirage I don't and it doesn't effect my groups.

If you have a garbage rifle that does need to cool between shots and you are okay with that, fine. But, some of us don't find junk guns acceptable.

This is like cutting the end off the roast.

A man notices his wife always cuts the end off the roast before cooking it. He asks her "Why do you always cut the end off the roast?" She tells him it is how her mother did it.

So, he goes to his mother-in-law and asks her "Why do you always cut the end off the roast?" And she says, "well it is how my mother did it."

So he goes to visit his grandmother-in-law at the assisted living facility and he asks her "Why did you always cut the end off the roast?"

She laughs and says 'Because my pane was too small".

My pan isn't too small and I didn't appreciate people who think giving advice for small pans without ever check the size is a good idea.

 

[Harvey_NW]

I'm going for consistency whether it makes a difference or not.

You can do something in your own process that makes a measurable improvement, and you'll still get blasted if it's not the exact blessed method .

Keep on keepin on.

 

[journeyman713]

Why? Other than mirage I don't and it doesn't effect my groups.

If you have a garbage rifle that does need to cool between shots and you are okay with that, fine. But, some of us don't find junk guns acceptable.

This is like cutting the end off the roast.

A man notices his wife always cuts the end off the roast before cooking it. He asks her "Why do you always cut the end off the roast?" She tells him it is how her mother did it.

So, he goes to his mother-in-law and asks her "Why do you always cut the end off the roast?" And she says, "well it is how my mother did it."

So he goes to visit his grandmother-in-law at the assisted living facility and he asks her "Why did you always cut the end off the roast?"

She laughs and says 'Because my pane was too small".

My pan isn't too small and I didn't appreciate people who think giving advice for small pans without ever check the size is a good idea.

Just pointing out the basic common sense stuff we all grew up with, works.
And in the real world - no one hunts with a gun that will burn you hand.
No need to be go though a truck load of ammo, just in case.

 

[HighUintas]

Just pointing out the basic common sense stuff we all grew up with, works.
And in the real world - no one hunts with a gun that will burn you hand.
No need to be go though a truck load of ammo, just in case.

I believe most of the reason for this thread is so people can stop worrying about it and just shoot their gun.

I do not have the time to sit around all day constantly waiting for a friggin barrel to cool to get my practice in. It's a huge time saver

 

[RME]

And in the real world - no one hunts with a gun that will burn you hand.

True, but in the real world I see people wasting a hell of a lot of time standing around waiting for barrels to cool. Time that would be much better spent practicing, or scouting, or anything else more productive than waiting on something that doesn’t matter.

 

[journeyman713]

True, but in the real world I see people wasting a hell of a lot of time standing around waiting for barrels to cool. Time that would be much better spent practicing, or scouting, or anything else more productive than waiting on something that doesn’t matter.

Yes, time is money. But, so is ammo. Take your pick.
If you got more time than money... Easy call. Glad it was clarified in the very first post.

What was missed, to the main contributor to a wandering cold bore shot. A cleaned gun. That must have gotten lost in all the smoke.

 

[RME]

Yes, time is money. But, so is ammo. Take your pick.
If you got more time than money... Easy call. Glad it was clarified in the very first post.

What was missed, to the main contributor to a wandering cold bore shot. A cleaned gun. That must have gotten lost in all the smoke.

You’re trying too hard bro

 

[HuntHarder]

You can do something in your own process that makes a measurable improvement, and you'll still get blasted if it's not the exact blessed method .

Keep on keepin on.

Most common reply to doing this... "You can't shoot the difference." Says guy who has never shot with the guy he is telling. Some of the group think on here is almost comical at this point.

 

[Snowhunter11]

I think some roksliders forget that a lot of people that come here don’t know “the secret”.. it’s the reason I came here looking for answers. I shot a Remington 700 factory synthetic .270. It would slightly wander year to year. Walk horizontally when I would fire rapidly. After my first sheep hunt it was off something crazy like 4-6”. Over the years I had rings come loose, scope change, trigger change, etc. The people I hunted with used rugers, tikkas, Remington, Leopold, Nikon, vortex, and the list goes on.. none properly setup. So most would avoid long range sessions. Find one group of three that was close and call it good untill next year. Did we kill? Yes we did. Did we miss often at marginal distance? Yes we did.

Now after properly setting up rifles, scopes, stocks, triggers, etc the guns magically hold zero. It’s fun to practice. And I don’t care to clean my gun or let it cool down.

Step 1 research how to setup
Step 2 buy gun (if yours sucks)
Step three assemble properly
Step four sight in properly
Step five practice
Step six kill and eat

I have done this with two rifles of my own now. I setup a friends rifle as well. He showed up to the range and dialed from 200-630 yards and dumped the silhouettes.He asked should I let it cool? Nope.. Should I clean it? Nope I have over 1000 rounds through mine with no issues. Killed an elk the next week. And thanked me for all the research, rifle setup, sight in, etc.

I will add when I first started here I had a hard time believing the wisdom of the world could be so wrong. Good luck to the fngs. The answers are there if you are willing to open your mind. “Trust but verify”