Climate change...deer numbers

[Rckymtnshooter]

Mule Deer populations in NW Montana,specifically the Flathead , have really tanked. Local biologists say that the preferred alpine food sources are disappearing in our historical best areas. They are saying an area west of Kalispell still has good alpine food and that the Mule Deer numbers there are doing much better. They have started a study on this.

They didn't come right out and say climate change in the couple conversations s I had.

 

[dreamingbig]

I wanted to see if any of you have heard your state game department blame climate change as a major factor in mule deer decline in your state? Last night here in Oregon a meeting was held in my town to discuss the new management strategy for mule deer. Climate change was brought up as a significant factor, #1, in suppressing our deer herd. Anybody heard such a thing? Seems to me they are using it as a scapegoat because it's something they obviously can't control so they basically don't have to do anything because it's all the result of climate. Just to make this clear, they are not saying a bad winter here or there....actual climate change.

They are saying that because of climate change the deer are malnourished which results in them being easier to prey upon. Ok, I can understand that to a point but to say it's the #1 factor....what a crock of sh*t. It couldn't have anything to do with the 10,000 cougars we have in this state. Nah, that would be controllable and they'd actually have to do something. I guess this is what I get for living in a blue state that hates hunters.

It has been mentioned in WA. Are your surprised?!?

They don’t want to mention the real #1 which is habitat loss and the real #2 which is predator’s impact.


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[jmez]

Yes. In norther MN and WI they are blaming climate change for low deer numbers in the areas of the states that have the most wolves.

They are saying the winters are more severe. It's colder because it's hotter. Kid you not.

See that's the kind of magic I'm talking about.

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[The_Dinkmaster]

Climate change gets brought up a ton in Arkansas regarding waterfowl, and honestly in that circumstance it’s probably warranted. Changing weather patterns have kept the ducks from pushing as far south until later than usual, and abnormally wet springs have hammered our green tree reservoirs, killing lots of timber.

The whole wetter springs thing has also been pointed to as a big reason for our Turkey decline, resulting in terrible nesting success and poult survival.

I think the biggest thing with our turkey population in Arkansas is predators. People use to coon hunt and trap coyotes, etc. No one does that anymore, and the predators are out of control. I get about as many coons and coyotes on my trail cams as I do deer. I can count on one hand the number of turkey I see per year in the Ouachita mountains

 

[Ozarkansas]

I think the biggest thing with our turkey population in Arkansas is predators. People use to coon hunt and trap coyotes, etc. No one does that anymore, and the predators are out of control. I get about as many coons and coyotes on my trail cams as I do deer. I can count on one hand the number of turkey I see per year in the Ouachita mountains

our Turkey situation truly is “death by a thousand cuts”- the collapse of fur prices and explosion of deer feeders (and therefore raccoons) has definitely played a part, as has fire ants, fire suppression, pigs, disease, and weather.

From what I’ve seen if you have good habitat and good spring weather, you have good Turkey recruitment, even in the face of predation. But predators can definitely make a poor recruitment year into a terrible one

 

[Mike7]

Well, in Idaho they blame the decline in moose on climate change, while saying that wolves have no effect on the population levels. The excuse is that warming climate allows winter ticks to survive farther north. Only issue is the moose in extreme southern Idaho, where you would think the winter ticks would effect the population first are thriving, and expanding their range into northern Nevada, moose in Colorado and Utah also seem to be doing ok, but moose in central and northern Idaho, Montana and Wyoming seem to all be struggling, the common denominator where moose populations are declining vs stable/increasing seems to be wolves but fish and game departments blame climate change

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When too much research money assigned by the gov't goes toward studies and dept's that must perpetuate the narrative of climate change being the most deleterious factor for animals, then you get a bunch of repetitive useless crap results like this above, which don't advance the ball on actually helping mule deer, in my opinion.

Even if anthropogenic climate change is a significant reality, and then also is having some measurable effect on animal populations (which is not known), some of the gov't imposed solutions for this are almost as insulting to the intelligence as the conclusions of the above studies.

Until nuclear fusion becomes a viable energy source, we might have slightly more luck looking at working on the following already mentioned habitat issues like human over population/immigration, predator management, pesticides and herbicides, where/how we irrigate and grow certain foods, travel corridors, fencing, winter ranges, logging & fire management, grazing, etc.

 

[The_Dinkmaster]

our Turkey situation truly is “death by a thousand cuts”- the collapse of fur prices and explosion of deer feeders (and therefore raccoons) has definitely played a part, as has fire ants, fire suppression, pigs, disease, and weather.

From what I’ve seen if you have good habitat and good spring weather, you have good Turkey recruitment, even in the face of predation. But predators can definitely make a poor recruitment year into a terrible one

100% agree. I see all the time guys complaining on Facebook saying "XYZ is the reason why our turkeys are dying off." "No its not that, its really reason ABC"

The truth is its a combination of ALL of those reasons. And until the AGFC starts to do something the population will continue to decrease.

In my opinion, they need to go to a 1-bird season at least every other year, at least for a while. This will still allow people to hunt but help reduce the number of birds taken. I dont see why people complain about this.....it seems logical to reduce the number of tags when the population starts to fall off.

 

[Mowata]

Mike7, you are correct, the results of most of these studies are predetermined before the actual study takes place. How convenient that all of our problems are because of man made climate change, when if you look at the Geologic Record you would find we are in a cycle that repeats itself over time. But you cannot get tax revenue based on the a naturally repeating cycle. Climate change is a correct term to use, by definition the climate is always changing, just not because of Human activity.

 

[fshaw]

If you discount anthropogenic climate change as a normal and unimportant part of natural geologic climate change it would be worthwhile to read some scientifically accurate information about it. I’m not a “sky is falling” kind of guy, and at my age I won’t see the worst effects. I do believe that we owe future generations better. NASA is a good place to start.

Climate Change

NASA is a global leader in studying Earth’s changing climate.

climate.nasa.gov

 

[Schoolhousegrizz]

I wanted to see if any of you have heard your state game department blame climate change as a major factor in mule deer decline in your state? Last night here in Oregon a meeting was held in my town to discuss the new management strategy for mule deer. Climate change was brought up as a significant factor, #1, in suppressing our deer herd. Anybody heard such a thing? Seems to me they are using it as a scapegoat because it's something they obviously can't control so they basically don't have to do anything because it's all the result of climate. Just to make this clear, they are not saying a bad winter here or there....actual climate change.

They are saying that because of climate change the deer are malnourished which results in them being easier to prey upon. Ok, I can understand that to a point but to say it's the #1 factor....what a crock of sh*t. It couldn't have anything to do with the 10,000 cougars we have in this state. Nah, that would be controllable and they'd actually have to do something. I guess this is what I get for living in a blue state that hates hunters.

Sorry, joke of a state. Hoping for greater Idaho for you.

 

[Fujicon]

How convenient that all of our problems are because of man made climate change, when if you look at the Geologic Record you would find we are in a cycle that repeats itself over time.

You are right about the cycle repeating itself, however...
Note that we are currently in a particularly LOW global temperature point. In fact, we are at nearly the lowest average global temperature for the past 260 million years; the lowest was during the "recent" ice age when it reached an average of 54 degrees F. Today's average global temperature is 55.5 degress F. To put these temperatures in perspective, the average global temperature during the past 260 million years is 75.2 degrees F.

"Climate change" alarmists seem challenged to accept scientific reality. They want to point the finger of blame at mankind when in reality this planet is cycling back to its "normal" temperature and that means the globe will continue to get warmer. Period. There is not one single thing mankind (or the alarmists) can do about that reality. Accepting reality means not foolishly falling victim to the alarmist blame game.

 

[Mowata]

You are right about the cycle repeating itself, however...
Note that we are currently in a particularly LOW global temperature point. In fact, we are at nearly the lowest average global temperature for the past 260 million years; the lowest was during the "recent" ice age when it reached an average of 54 degrees F. Today's average global temperature is 55.5 degress F. To put these temperatures in perspective, the average global temperature during the past 260 million years is 75.2 degrees F.

"Climate change" alarmists seem challenged to accept scientific reality. They want to point the finger of blame at mankind when in reality this planet is cycling back to its "normal" temperature and that means the globe will continue to get warmer. Period. There is not one single thing mankind (or the alarmists) can do about that reality. Accepting reality means not foolishly falling victim to the alarmist blame game.

Most people don't realize that one major volcanic eruption can spew out more CO2 than man can create in 50-100 years. I didn't know that the average global temperature is 55.5 degrees F. and the average during the ice age was 54 degrees, it wouldn't take much for the global temp to go down 1.5 degrees considering the temp has fluctuated 21 degrees or more over time.

 

[Fujicon]

Most people don't realize that one major volcanic eruption can spew out more CO2 than man can create in 50-100 years. I didn't know that the average global temperature is 55.5 degrees F. and the average during the ice age was 54 degrees, it wouldn't take much for the global temp to go down 1.5 degrees considering the temp has fluctuated 21 degrees or more over time.

FYI, those average global temperature numbers were reported by the Smithsonian Institution. Don't know what their source was...

 

[Lando]

That's a dangerous myth.

Not everyone has the same carbon footprint. However, the demographic that makes up the vast majority of users on this forum has the highest per capita carbon footprint on the planet.

I think that award goes to the politicians and rich folks private jetting into their Save the Earth from Climate Change Conferences.

 

[jmez]

If you discount anthropogenic climate change as a normal and unimportant part of natural geologic climate change it would be worthwhile to read some scientifically accurate information about it. I’m not a “sky is falling” kind of guy, and at my age I won’t see the worst effects. I do believe that we owe future generations better. NASA is a good place to start.

Climate Change

NASA is a global leader in studying Earth’s changing climate.

climate.nasa.gov

Scientifically accurate from NASA. Lemme guess, Pfizer is the authority on the safety of their products.

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[5811]

Most people don't realize that one major volcanic eruption can spew out more CO2 than man can create in 50-100 years. I didn't know that the average global temperature is 55.5 degrees F. and the average during the ice age was 54 degrees, it wouldn't take much for the global temp to go down 1.5 degrees considering the temp has fluctuated 21 degrees or more over time.

Does a Single Volcanic Eruption Release as Much CO2 As All of Humanity Has to Date?

Faulty science claims the amount of carbon dioxide (CO2) emitted by volcanoes vastly outstrips the amount produced by human activity.

www.snopes.com

This isn't even remotely close to being true.

 

[Beaglegun]

Biggest threats to humanity:

• Climate change
• 2nd amendment
• vaccine(mrna gene therapy) hesitancy
• Donald Trump
• Transphobia
• White supremacy
• People who dont believe the bullshit and wont submit and cower in the corner (see above bullet points)

 

[fshaw]

Scientifically accurate from NASA. Lemme guess, Pfizer is the authority on the safety of their products.

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Pick any scientifically reputable source that you’d like, the information is the same. Might be worth reading a bit about the science and scientists at NASA before rejecting it out of hand. “Storms of My Grandchildren” would be a good place to start. Written by a planetary scientist who ran afoul of NASA bureaucracy by stating the truth publicly against controlling political dogma. Read about the subject with an open mind, the conclusions are pretty obvious.

 

[drpnw]

maybe to steer this in a different direction: how do the major factors impacting mule deer populations change your approach to prepare for the next season?

 

[Pony Soldier]

My choices are:
Population density
Habitat
Hunting pressure
Predator population
Winter impacts
Access