Choosing a Dog

[Mtaylor]

Where are you located?

 

[johnnycake]

That is one bad ass looking dog. What breeder did you get him or her from?

How is the on off switch?

How easy to train?

How easy is it to have the breeder select a smoother coat?

As I said earlier I have short hairs now but I've considered getting a pp for my next dog. My only hang up is the extremely wiery coat?

My 2 pudelpointers are both from Bob Farris Cedarwood Gun Dogs.

My 6 year old (the one in the pics I posted on this thread) has always had an incredible off switch in the house. She spent the first 3.5yrs of her life living in a 950sqft apartment with 2 young kids, a bitch of a beagle, and no direct yard access. Insanely cooperative dog, who has been a breeze to train.

My 10mo old is a bit more restless, but all things considered she has a pretty solid off switch. She's very smart, but a bit less cooperative and more headstrong and independent than my 6 year old. But she's getting there. Once I finish installing the steering wheel and brakes on her, she's going to be a force to be reckoned with.

Coat variability is a big issue with PPs. I turned down litter after litter for several years before I liked the coat and pedigree combo enough to get my 10mo. Not every coat is ideal for every situation. But personally, harsher is better for me. You could always ask for a slick, and they occur frequently enough a breeder should be able to accommodate that if you wanted. I like the protection the wire coat offers from cold, sticks, rocks, etc.

 

[Tleek]

That’s a

Where are you located?

northcoast California. In the redwoods.

 

[Tleek]

Each breed has variations of personalities and temperaments and bird drive. I hunt with the parents or go hunt with the breeder if I can. Also be realistic with yourself, how much will you really hunt it? 9 months of the year it will be a family dog, most of us don’t need Ferraris, Toyota Corolla work just fine.

Talk to the breeders about the dogs range, temperament, and ask if they could change 1 thing what it would be or how they are trying to improve their lines? If they say their dogs are perfect RUN!! Nobody’s dogs are. The hood breeders don’t have their heads in the clouds.

100 percent.
Family dog and good with my kids is the top priority.

 

[Mtaylor]

100 percent.
Family dog and good with my kids is the top priority.

You have Bachman bay Kennels, and Wires west in south central Oregon they are both Wirehair breeders but they both have excellent dogs. Domonic Bachman is a NAVHDA judge and a straight shooter. The most pp breeders in the PNW have used Bob Farris’s lines in their own and I have only heard good things about those dogs. Get in touch with the PP alliance and you will find a great dog. If you’re looking for Brittany’s Sunburst Brittany’s near Ontario Oregon is where I would start. They even have some 14 month old pups right now that have been hunted behind so the learning curve is less steep.

 

[huntineveryday]

You will get a lot of people recommending the breed they have at home because they've had a great experiences with it. There are several of the versatile breeds that would meet your requirements. The North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association (NAVHDA) has some great resources that can help with your search, including breed descriptions and articles about different breeds in past issues of thier publication. Find a versatile breed or two that you like and start looking for breeders near you (within a distance you'd be willing to drive and visit).

With a little work you can search previous litters and breeders on NAVHDA's website and see test scores coming from dogs out of that breeder. The natural ability test does a good job showing whether a breeder is getting a lot of natural instinct from thier breedings, and UT dogs or VC dogs can show that they are producing trainable dogs (but that needs more than a surface level look to tease out). One thing NAVHDA doesn't account for is breeding to a standard confirmation, so I like to cross reference a list of NAVHDA breeders to other organizations that do, such as the North American Pudelpointer Alliance or the German Wirehair Alliance, AKC, etc.

If you are wanting a pointing breed and not a versatile breed, look into field trial organizations for that type of info about those breeds. The best pointers are going to come from field trial lines.

When you've narrowed down your list to a handful of breeders, call them up and talk to them about thier breeding program, thier goals for it, what types of dogs they aim to produce, and what they do with thier dogs. Don't worry about the timeline, find a breeder and the litter will come. Don't just shop for a litter on the ground. A good breeder is one that is striving to breed a dog with the traits you are looking for, using thier dogs the way you will use your dog, and willing to tell you about the faults or weaknesses they see in thier current dogs. A good breeder will have no problem with you coming to meet thier dogs, see how they are used, or be accessible in some way for help to make sure you get the best out of your dog.

This all takes time. To me, a month of weeknights combing through info is worth it to get a decade of hunting over a good dog.

 

[johnnycake]

You will get a lot of people recommending the breed they have at home because they've had a great experiences with it. There are several of the versatile breeds that would meet your requirements. The North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association (NAVHDA) has some great resources that can help with your search, including breed descriptions and articles about different breeds in past issues of thier publication. Find a versatile breed or two that you like and start looking for breeders near you (within a distance you'd be willing to drive and visit).

With a little work you can search previous litters and breeders on NAVHDA's website and see test scores coming from dogs out of that breeder. The natural ability test does a good job showing whether a breeder is getting a lot of natural instinct from thier breedings, and UT dogs or VC dogs can show that they are producing trainable dogs (but that needs more than a surface level look to tease out). One thing NAVHDA doesn't account for is breeding to a standard confirmation, so I like to cross reference a list of NAVHDA breeders to other organizations that do, such as the North American Pudelpointer Alliance or the German Wirehair Alliance, AKC, etc.

If you are wanting a pointing breed and not a versatile breed, look into field trial organizations for that type of info about those breeds. The best pointers are going to come from field trial lines.

When you've narrowed down your list to a handful of breeders, call them up and talk to them about thier breeding program, thier goals for it, what types of dogs they aim to produce, and what they do with thier dogs. Don't worry about the timeline, find a breeder and the litter will come. Don't just shop for a litter on the ground. A good breeder is one that is striving to breed a dog with the traits you are looking for, using thier dogs the way you will use your dog, and willing to tell you about the faults or weaknesses they see in thier current dogs. A good breeder will have no problem with you coming to meet thier dogs, see how they are used, or be accessible in some way for help to make sure you get the best out of your dog.

This all takes time. To me, a month of weeknights combing through info is worth it to get a decade of hunting over a good dog.

This is excellent advice. One thing I'd add to it for the OP is if you are looking at field trial pointers, be very careful to check into whether these are dogs that are also living in the house. There are many excellent, hard charging field trial pointing dogs out there that have zero business living in a home if you value your sanity (and marriage). But there are also field trial pointers that make great family dogs in the house too. Just have to research out the lines.

 

[Tleek]

So much great info here
Thanks guys

 

[cuttiebrownbow]

Here is some information that most people won't tell you: Hunting dogs are a pain in the ass no matter what when you first get them. If they aren't then you probably don't have a hunting dog.

Most dogs take two full adult hunting seasons to truly season, mature and learn that at home they rest and get the amount of obedience training to make them a pleasure to live with.

So your first 18 months with a puppy is going to make you regret having a dog if you aren't prepared for the whirlwind that a hunting puppy is.

Find a breeder that hunts what you hunt, avoid show breeders like the plague, and go hunt with their dogs. Take a look at their house. Is their house immaculate but their dogs are never allowed inside? All breeders will have built kennels if they have a big enough operation, but I have been to breeders with five dogs that primarily lived in the house and their house wasn't destroyed and they were great hunting dogs. Others their dogs are never really inside but they will tell you what you want to hear to sell the dog.

I think reputable NAVHDA breeders do a great job of finding a good mix of drive, cooperation and off switch in dogs. In my opinion a well-bred dog should hunt well - natural side to side search pattern at appropriate range to the cover, strong natural point, retrieve to hand naturally and have a great affinity for water.

I avoid any breed that isn't known to produce strong retrievers or water dogs. I don't want the needle in the haystack.

I do have griffs and my advice is don't buy one with furnishings covering their eyes. Pet the head of the parents if it is soft hair go find a different breeder. Look at their feet and legs. Dense wirehair with minimal feathering on legs is what you want. My griffs have wirehair and nothing sticks to them that my fingers can't pull out easily.

 

[rideold]

Here is some information that most people won't tell you: Hunting dogs are a pain in the ass no matter what when you first get them. If they aren't then you probably don't have a hunting dog.

Most dogs take two full adult hunting seasons to truly season, mature and learn that at home they rest and get the amount of obedience training to make them a pleasure to live with.

So your first 18 months with a puppy is going to make you regret having a dog if you aren't prepared for the whirlwind that a hunting puppy is.

True. So true. There is a reason that most dogs in rescue organizations tend to be the same age. Just live through it. My GSP was a royal pain in the arse around this age. We made it through. It's a great exercise in patience and letting go of your ego/temper.

 

[Customweld]

My wife has a PP and she is a terrific dog, with absolutely no desire to hunt. Unless it's a cat. I have a Slovakian Rough Hair Pointer, who is forever in search of forgiveness for his bad decisions ! All he wants to do is hunt and seemingly drive my wife crazy. As stated above, hunting dogs need a job. If you don't give them one, they will find one on their own. Much to their own detriment.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

Which ever breed you chose, we all have our preferences, remember female dogs are called bitches for a reason.

 

[johnnycake]

Which ever breed you chose, we all have our preferences, remember female dogs are called bitches for a reason.

It's because the bitches love me, right?

 

[chizelhead]

You could reach out to Jess Spradley at Cabin Creek. He's in Lakeview, OR with pudelpointers and GSPs. He's not in the PP alliance. I found him to be a real straight shooter. I went with Rod Rist at Highlife Pudelpointers. The sire was one of Bob Farris's dogs and he and Bob are really tight. Bob is great to talk too as well if you don't get on his list. He's very informative and tends to know the litters.

 

[KurtR]

I love the puppy stage they are little sponges and learn fast. Im getting puppy fever reading about this. Its a year or so out but im already looking forward to another little monster chewing every thing up

 

[Sierra Hunter]

With whatever dog breed you decide to get, the breeding of the litter you get a dog from matters immensely. Can't stress it enough. You really need to know what the sire and dam are before you decide to pull trigger on a puppy, and beyond what the person that did the breeding says. I do pointing dog field trials and if I had a buck for every time someone thinks their breedings are the best there is, I'd be rich. What's worse is the amount of people who think this way yet the dogs they're using to breed have not really done anything noteworthy, have poor confirmation or are high strung. Furthermore, you'll do really well to get a dog from someone who actually has made calmness part of their selection process for choosing the dogs they choose to breed.

As you can tell hopefully, no matter what breed you choose, you really need to find the breeder with a longstanding breeding program of many years, not someone who got a dog, loves that dog and thinks it's the most amazing hunter so they want to breed it. There's no depth behind that decision; not saying it's not the best dog out there but the dogs that should truly be bred are a small minority.

This is thee most important passage written on the topic

 

[ianpadron]

Hunt tests and trials are fine, but there's a lot to be said about the ol "meat dog" that hunts all season, and accompanies their owner during their other passions in the off-season.

Genetics are #1 in terms of confirmation, disposition, and health, obviously, but don't pass up the chance to actually HUNT over the sire/dam if given the chance and not just being wowed by titles and ribbons.

There are so many little things that a controlled environment like a field trial cannot replicate, and you learn more about a dog's problem solving ability and drive while actually hunting.

Lots of good recommendations on breed here, I personally own an American Brittany and a Field Golden...nice little combo and I think the munsterlander recs basically combine the best of both worlds with very few compromises.

 

[Mk44]

If your wife is allergic. I would go with a hypoallergenic dog like a pudelpointer.

My buddy had 2 GSP but had to get rid of them because his daughter was allergic.
Afterwards he brought a pudelpointer (pup). Started training her at a young age. He had a buddy (experienced) help him train the pup. She's now 4 y/o and a great hunting and family dog.
Find a trainer in your area if you're not familiar with the training commands/technic for a hunting dog.

My buddy's wife use to dislike the 2 GSP because they were hyper and wreak havoc in the house. But she loves the pudelpointer because it's gently around the family and listens very well.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Some good advice in this thread.

1. Don’t chase test scores, they can be misleading.
2. Spend some time around the breeders dogs if you can. Pay close attention to temperament.
3. Crate your dog if it’ll be in the house. An unattended dog is a pending train wreck/vet visit.
4. Learn to train your dog and make sure there is consistency amongst the family.
5. Have high expectations. Dogs are capable of so much more than what most folks expect or demand.
6. Hunt your dog. A lot.
7. Strongly consider force fetch training.
8. Find a good training group to help you. Any breeder worth their salt will provide guidance as well.
9. Any training your dog needs is doable without a professional trainer. Whether it’s feasible for individual or not depends on the individual.
10. Start exposure early. I begin tracking exposure at about 10 weeks.

As for breed, I have two Drahthaars. They are phenomenal do all dogs and good in the house. I can’t speak to the hypoallergenic issue.

 

[WRO]

We got a lab and I tried to train him ourselves . We have had 3 labs over the years, but this was the first one I was trying to train for hunting. It went ok up until about 7 months old. Then things started going western. I decided to send the dog off for professional training. Dog entered basic obedience and then went thru basic gun dog training. We now have a "started" dog, but don't think you will have a full blown hunting dog after they come out of a short professional course. IT takes lots of time and repetition. Also, like someone above mentioned, you have to be trained to train your dog. There are now a handful of online courses available that can help. Regarding breed, im not much help their, but my decision making process may help.

I was looking at GSP's and Labs. For the upland the GSP would probably be a better choice, but I also wanted to ability to have our dog retrieve cranes, ducks and pheasant (larger upland bird) in addition to the quail and dove) and be a good house dog. I felt the lab was an all around better choice for THAT set of factors. Not to say the GSP would have been a poor choice, just not as large to handle to crane work. I also think they are even MORE high strung than labs and would require a lot of run time...even moreso than labs. With that said...id still love to have a GSP too. But labs have my heart as the #1 choice. The hair shedding is a whole other topic though....the struggle is real....LOL

Im no expert, but thats my 2 cents on it. Good luck with your choice and decision making process. "good" dogs with great "papers" arent cheap either. We really didnt go that route, but our dog is AKC. It was only a $750 dog. I could easily have spent 2500 to get a dog with good papers, medical history, etc from an established breeder. But with that said....here is the thing....the training was 800 bucks a month for 4 months......so costs quickly add up! And that was just for a started dog, not a finished dog.

The whole process is a "rabbit hole" and you can go as deep as you want/choose/ can afford. If your going to do the training yourself, you need to be honest with yourself and determine if you have the patience and time, and are willing to put in the effort. I had the best of intentions, but family time, work, etc take away from time to train. Sending them off ensures they get training time every day with some structure. The down side is you do loose some "puppy time" with your dog.

Oh...one more thing. Reseach clubs in your area, there may be one local where you can go and train with others on a regular basis. There are usually members with training experience, breeders, etc there, plus they pool resources to buy equipment like bird launchers, etc for their AKC/HRC events.

I’ve had two buddies have labs that weren’t tested that got hip dysplasia by 5. It sucks, if he’s not fixed, don’t do it until at least 2.


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