Cell Cams and Pope & Young

[Bubblehide]

Ideally I just wanted to just have an adult conversation about using cell cams and their relationship with fair chase, not be scolded by some random chode. Thanks for chiming in though.

No you didn't. Anyone that expressed an opinion that was not aligned with yours, you were rude to. Additionally, as previously pointed out, your discussion is not about the use of cell cams' it's is about using the type that transmit images in real time. That real time transmission is clearly a violation of fair chase, no ands if of butts about it. Based on what you have stated in this thread, you simply appear to want this issue your way.

The whole idea about an adult discussion, is to respect differing opinion, rather than exhibit disrespect as you have clearly done. As for cameras that transmit images realtime becoming illegal where you are, just give it time. But keep in mind, in the states they are illegal, to my knowledge, they are only illegal during the respective season. So they can still be used off season.

 

[jakelogsdon]

All cell cameras transmit images in real time. Unless you consider the 5 minute lag it takes to come through as not being real time. That is not the issue. The issue is using a real time photo to take you directly to an animal and kill it. You can still enter a deer in P&Y if you have pictures of that deer sent to your phone in "real time". Transmitting images in real time is clearly not a violation of fair chase. I respect people with opinions that differ from mine. But you have never stated an opinion you've been trying to tell me by fact what fair chase is. Not what you believe fair chase is. Also you might want to check your first post. You accuse me of being "butt hurt" then expect me to be respectful towards you. Hahahaha. No sir. I wil not.

No you didn't. Anyone that expressed an opinion that was not aligned with yours, you were rude to. Additionally, as previously pointed out, your discussion is not about the use of cell cams' it's is about using the type that transmit images in real time. That real time transmission is clearly a violation of fair chase, no ands if of butts about it. Based on what you have stated in this thread, you simply appear to want this issue your way.

The whole idea about an adult discussion, is to respect differing opinion, rather than exhibit disrespect as you have clearly done. As for cameras that transmit images realtime becoming illegal where you are, just give it time. But keep in mind, in the states they are illegal, to my knowledge, they are only illegal during the respective season. So they can still be used off season.

 

[Bubblehide]

All cell cameras transmit images in real time. Unless you consider the 5 minute lag it takes to come through as not being real time. That is not the issue. The issue is using a real time photo to take you directly to an animal and kill it. You can still enter a deer in P&Y if you have pictures of that deer sent to your phone in "real time". Transmitting images in real time is clearly not a violation of fair chase. I respect people with opinions that differ from mine. But you have never stated an opinion you've been trying to tell me by fact what fair chase is. Not what you believe fair chase is. Also you might want to check your first post. You accuse me of being "butt hurt" then expect me to be respectful towards you. Hahahaha. No sir. I wil not.

Fair enough, don't be respectful to me. But you are totally wrong. Many game cameras do not transmit images at all, and the user need to go to the camera to see the images recorded with the memory; so once again, you are totally wrong. You continually make false arguments pretending to come from a righteous perspective. You should keep in mind that the law, including what is considered fair chase is subject to change, as exactly what has happened in several state. That same process will happen in your state also. The outcome may or may not be the same. But in the states that have made it illegal, the reasoning is solidly documented as cameras that transmit images NOT being Fair Chase; plain and simply. I get it, you are afraid that will happen to you, and it likely will. But your delusionary thinking on the matter will not stop the process of change.

Best wishes, over and out!

 

[jakelogsdon]

Its been cleared up by P&Y that using a cell camera is still considered fair chase, so long as you don't use the image to guide you in real time to the animal. Maybe read up a little. Its been written about since I made this post in August.
Field and Stream did an article and its been discussed on several podcasts with sources directly from P&Y. So yeah. Your "factual opinion" isn't very factual. Also I said cell camera, not game camera. And yeah they all transmit real time pics. My state will most likely not follow suit to yours. I'm not at all concerned about that.

Fair enough, don't be respectful to me. But you are totally wrong. Many game cameras do not transmit images at all, and the user need to go to the camera to see the images recorded with the memory; so once again, you are totally wrong. You continually make false arguments pretending to come from a righteous perspective. You should keep in mind that the law, including what is considered fair chase is subject to change, as exactly what has happened in several state. That same process will happen in your state also. The outcome may or may not be the same. But in the states that have made it illegal, the reasoning is solidly documented as cameras that transmit images NOT being Fair Chase; plain and simply. I get it, you are afraid that will happen to you, and it likely will. But your delusionary thinking on the matter will not stop the process of change.

Best wishes, over and out!

 

[Billy Goat]

I don't think all cell cams immediately upload photos, some can be programmed to send at a certain time of day.


Someone has come up with technology now that will identify bucks and send those pictures to you, so you don't need to waste your time looking at all those does.

Here it is:

SmartCam Home – WiseEye Technology

wiseeyetech.com

 

[jakelogsdon]

I don't think all cell cams immediately upload photos, some can be programmed to send at a certain time of day.


Someone has come up with technology now that will identify bucks and send those pictures to you, so you don't need to waste your time looking at all those does.

You are correct, Most of the cell cameras I have used have an option in settings to adjust times to send. But they all do have the option to send in real time. If the user sets it up that way.

 

[Bubblehide]

Its been cleared up by P&Y that using a cell camera is still considered fair chase, so long as you don't use the image to guide you in real time to the animal. Maybe read up a little. Its been written about since I made this post in August.
Field and Stream did an article and its been discussed on several podcasts with sources directly from P&Y. So yeah. Your "factual opinion" isn't very factual.

Dudebro, that is exactly what I have been trying to tell you.

 

[jakelogsdon]

Dudebro, that is exactly what I have been trying to tell you.

Please guide me to where I missed that.

 

[jakelogsdon]

some can be programmed to send at a certain time of day.


Someone has come up with technology now that will identify bucks and send those pictures to you, so you don't need to waste your time looking at all those does.

Ok here's a likely scenario for myself to encounter, And possibly for other public land whitetail guys. Say I'm hunting a new to me management area and I have one stand with me. I've packed my one set in on my back, and I find a good spot maybe a nice active scrape. I hang my set and hang a cell camera over the scrape. I'm planning to hunt that set in the morning but have the camera over the scrape to see what's using it at night. The next morning when I'm on the way to my stand I get a picture of a giant working the scrape. I make my way to the set and get set up and wind up killing that deer. Is that fair chase?

 

[Jellymon1]

Most people wouldn’t admit to P&Y that they had cell cams out anyway. And what’s P&Y going to do, investigate every entry?
Id be willing to bet that a large amount of animals in those books were taken while breaking P&Y, B&C, or the states rules. Some people’s ethics, no I will go with most peoples ethics, go right out the window when they actually see an animal that size during season.
Yes this is a lot of assuming. But what I’ve seen of the average Hunter around here has caused me to lose a lot of faith in them doing the right thing.

 

[jakelogsdon]

Most people wouldn’t admit to P&Y that they had cell cams out anyway. And what’s P&Y going to do, investigate every entry?
Id be willing to bet that a large amount of animals in those books were taken while breaking P&Y, B&C, or the states rules. Some people’s ethics, no I will go with most peoples ethics, go right out the window when they actually see an animal that size during season.
Yes this is a lot of assuming. But what I’ve seen of the average Hunter around here has caused me to lose a lot of faith in them doing the right thing.

I agree with you 100 percent. P&Y didn't even question me with the deer I entered. And I've talked with a few buddies of mine that have entered deer recently and they didn't get questioned either. The question will probably start to get serious when the animal pushes past the 200" mark or gets into the state record category, and the digging would begin.

 

[Billy Goat]

Ok here's a likely scenario for myself to encounter, And possibly for other public land whitetail guys. Say I'm hunting a new to me management area and I have one stand with me. I've packed my one set in on my back, and I find a good spot maybe a nice active scrape. I hang my set and hang a cell camera over the scrape. I'm planning to hunt that set in the morning but have the camera over the scrape to see what's using it at night. The next morning when I'm on the way to my stand I get a picture of a giant working the scrape. I make my way to the set and get set up and wind up killing that deer. Is that fair chase?

I would say in that scenario it is, however what if in the morning you were undecided where to go,even tho the night before you thought you would go there, then decided to go to a different stand site, only to get a picture sent to you that you then change your mind.. Maybe you only own one treestand, I don't know.

I mean think of it outside of your situation, if someone owns 10 treestands and ten cell cams and all they do is look at different pictures in the morning while sipping coffee to decide where to hunt, is that what you think hunting should be? I guess we can have the freedom to do that if we want, far as I know we can. Just P and Y is deciding not to allow that for record book entries. Nothing saying you can't do it, just says you can't do it and put it in their books. Just the rules of their game.

Perfectly legal for me to shoot deer in front of dogs, I don't think I can enter them in B & C. Don't care too much either way, not much on dog hunting, and probably won't put a deer in B & C book.

 

[Billy Goat]

I agree with you 100 percent. P&Y didn't even question me with the deer I entered. And I've talked with a few buddies of mine that have entered deer recently and they didn't get questioned either. The question will probably start to get serious when the animal pushes past the 200" mark or gets into the state record category, and the digging would begin.

I didn't think it was a question, but rather a signed statement of fair chase.

 

[Sobrbiker]

Here in AZ game and fish consider it not fair chase, and cell/wireless cams are in fact illegal to use if during the season you have a tag for.
With the way deer numbers look here, I don’t blame them one bit. I’d go so far as to say I’d back closing the state (or most units) for a few years, emend though I’ve come to love hunting them.

P&Y has their rules, if you don’t agree, don’t join or submit anything for recording.

 

[jakelogsdon]

I would say in that scenario it is, however what if in the morning you were undecided where to go,even tho the night before you thought you would go there, then decided to go to a different stand site, only to get a picture sent to you that you then change your mind.. Maybe you only own one treestand, I don't know.

I mean think of it outside of your situation, if someone owns 10 treestands and ten cell cams and all they do is look at different pictures in the morning while sipping coffee to decide where to hunt, is that what you think hunting should be? I guess we can have the freedom to do that if we want, far as I know we can. Just P and Y is deciding not to allow that for record book entries. Nothing saying you can't do it, just says you can't do it and put it in their books. Just the rules of their game.

Perfectly legal for me to shoot deer in front of dogs, I don't think I can enter them in B & C. Don't care too much either way, not much on dog hunting, and probably won't put a deer in B & C book.

Id say what you're talking about is probably more likely to happen than my description. But I'd think that if i did it the way I described and the deer was big enough people tend to cook up stories out of jealousy and envy and it could turn out bad for me even though I didn't do anything wrong, it could be painted that way. Its all done under good faith until somebody doesn't like something.

 

[Billy Goat]

How would it turn out bad for you?

Because it got your name removed from a record book?

 

[jakelogsdon]

If it was important enough for to me to enter the deer, knowing that I did things the right way and having my deer removed because some ******* prick was envious and wanted to try to trump up some bullshit or just create question about the entry, Yeah, I think that's bad and just out of principle its wrong.

 

[Wrench]

Having feelings AND asking for opinions is a recipe for disappointment.

 

[jakelogsdon]

Having feelings AND asking for opinions is a recipe for disappointment.

AGREED. I'm pretty passionate about what I do and the way I do things, I've been brought up to do things the right way morally and ethically. I have my convictions and firmly believe that what I do in the woods is above and beyond fair chase. If my methods are questionable in one person's eyes, I will do my best to attempt to explain my methodology. In the grand scheme of things, it is what it is, and it really doesn't matter.

 

[Billy Goat]

If it was important enough for to me to enter the deer, knowing that I did things the right way and having my deer removed because some ******* prick was envious and wanted to try to trump up some bullshit or just create question about the entry, Yeah, I think that's bad and just out of principle its wrong.

I can tell you that will happen if you enter it in a record book or not.


If you don't want that kind of stuff happening, don't show off anything you kill. Going to happen to some extent no matter what.