Cell Cams and Pope & Young

[jakelogsdon]

Does anyone else see the idiocy in this?

Pope & Young Club Clarifies Stance on Cellular Trail Cameras

Can you enter a buck in the books when using a cellular trail cam? The Pope & Young Club just clarified their stance on cellular trail cameras.

www.bowhunting.com

 

[bohntr]

Elaborate?

 

[jakelogsdon]

Did you read the article? I put a link above ^^

 

[Erict]

I do not see any idiocy and agree with their position. Additionally, Pope and Young has the right to create and change the rules of their club. No one is forcing anyone to enter P&Y, but if you wanna be in their club you're expected to follow their rules.

 

[jakelogsdon]

So you agree with the policy? If so, I can understand how you might have missed the idiocy..

 

[Pro953]

Can you clarify what you think is wrong with the decision? Most of the cams do not provide “real time” photos anyway, so it should not be a issue. But if you hunt your farm and you are sitting at the breakfast table and Ding, that Buck you are chasing is on the back side of the ranch. I would think that is an unfair advantage through technology, no?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jakelogsdon]

Can you clarify what you think is wrong with the decision? Most of the cams do not provide “real time” photos anyway, so it should not be a issue. But if you hunt your farm and you are sitting at the breakfast table and Ding, that Buck you are chasing is on the back side of the ranch. I would think that is an unfair advantage through technology, no?


Sent from my iPhone using

I've used cell cameras for scouting for about 7 years now. I mostly hunt public land and usually have around 8 to 10 cell cameras active at one time. Some places I hunt I will have a cluster of cell cameras in one general area. About 1 out of 75 bucks I get on camera will be a P&Y class deer. It is extremely difficult to pattern these older deer even with a dense network of "real time" cell cameras. I definitely don't think that what I'm doing would undermine the ethics of "fair chase". Not one time have I been able to get a picture of a deer from a cell camera and just go kill him. Its not that simple. If anything is happening it would be the opposite effect. I would wager that cell cameras have probably saved more deer lives, than not having them at all. People (including myself) think they can pattern deer and use cameras to help decide when and where to hunt, instead of just sitting your ass in a stand and hunting. I just know the amount of work I have to put in to kill a P&Y deer and if I ever decided to attempt to enter one I would hate for it to get shut down because I got a picture of him. Sorry for being long winded. I'm just pretty passionate about what I do and how I do it and don't like groups questioning my fair chase ethics.

 

[deerhunt1988]

I agree with their position as well. If I was Hunting Czar, I'd ban the use of them completely. The hunting industry just keeps pushing the limits of 'fair chase'. How easy do we want it? I know people who deer and turkey hunt from their couch now. Throw a ton of cell cams out, when they get a picture of an animal they want to hunt, they go hunt. It can really up their odds on turkey in a food plot setting since turkeys aren't nocturnal and HAVE to move during the day. Turkeys populations are in decline across the southeast and 'hunters' just want easier ways to kill them!

 

[jakelogsdon]

I agree with their position as well. If I was Hunting Czar, I'd ban the use of them completely. The hunting industry just keeps pushing the limits of 'fair chase'. How easy do we want it? I know people who deer and turkey hunt from their couch now. Throw a ton of cell cams out, when they get a picture of an animal they want to hunt, they go hunt. It can really up their odds on turkey in a food plot setting since turkeys aren't nocturnal and HAVE to move during the day. Turkeys populations are in decline across the southeast and 'hunters' just want easier ways to kill them!

Your way of thinking is a problem with our culture. You think you know what the right way is. And if it's not your way its wrong, so make it illegal. Its obvious by the way you talk that you don't have much applicable knowledge.

 

[deerhunt1988]

Your way of thinking is a problem with our culture. You think you know what the right way is. And if it's not your way its wrong, so make it illegal. Its obvious by the way you talk that you don't have much applicable knowledge.

So you post the thread wanting input from others, then get your feelings hurt when their opinion differs from yours? And go on to question their knowledge?

Sounds to me like your description fits the first line in the quote above.

 

[lak2004]

So you post the thread wanting input from others, then get your feelings hurt when their opinion differs from yours? And go on to question their knowledge?

Sounds to me like your description fits the first line in the quote above.

I made the same comment and then deleted it.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

 

[jakelogsdon]

So you post the thread wanting input from others, then get your feelings hurt when their opinion differs from yours? And go on to question their knowledge?

Sounds to me like your description fits the first line in the quote above.

I guess I should have known that this could turn into a smear piece. I'm advocating that using a cell camera to scout and hunt is still considered fair chase, if you disagree that's absolutely fine. I'm all for differences of opinion. But when you start spouting off trash like "banning" and making things "illegal" because they don't align with your views that is where I draw the line. Call it a difference of opinion that's fine, but don't try to make me a criminal. If you cant see the problem with that..... you're correct.... I don't value one ounce of your opinion.

I agree with their position as well. If I was Hunting Czar, I'd ban the use of them completely. The hunting industry just keeps pushing the limits of 'fair chase'. How easy do we want it? I know people who deer and turkey hunt from their couch now. Throw a ton of cell cams out, when they get a picture of an animal they want to hunt, they go hunt. It can really up their odds on turkey in a food plot setting since turkeys aren't nocturnal and HAVE to move during the day. Turkeys populations are in decline across the southeast and 'hunters' just want easier ways to kill them!

as far as this comment ^^, you're making statements with zero facts and nothing to back it up, also generalizing "hunters" as being lazy and unethical. You can speak for yourself and maybe some people you know, but you most definitely can not speak for me and a lot of the people I know. That is the reason i question your knowledge or lack there of.

 

[jakelogsdon]

I made the same comment and then deleted it

It kind of seems like your way of thinking is a problem with our culture, you think you are right and other's opinions aren't valid. If you post on a forum complaining about something, expect opposing views and maybe consider them rather than tell people they are wrong because they don't agree with you.

To address your comment. I gladly welcome opposing positions. Please bring some valid reasoning with you though. Also please keep in mind... Just because I might think differently than you, I will never try to take something away from you..... If you have a difference of opinion and you express that, and somebody pushes back that is not a problem. The problem that I was trying to express is that we are a nation of laws and regulations, 14 new laws are written before 1 is taken away. We can not have the mentality that whenever something arises that we don't like or agree with that it should be made illegal.

 

[lak2004]

To address your comment. I gladly welcome opposing positions. Please bring some valid reasoning with you though. Also please keep in mind... Just because I might think differently than you, I will never try to take something away from you..... If you have a difference of opinion and you express that, and somebody pushes back that is not a problem. The problem that I was trying to express is that we are a nation of laws and regulations, 14 new laws are written before 1 is taken away. We can not have the mentality that whenever something arises that we don't like or agree with that it should be made illegal.

It's not a law or regulation that prohibits you from anything besides entering an animal into the P&Y record book, so you don't have a leg to stand on in my opinion. If you don't like, don't me a member or enter an animal, easy. I'm not saying this from a standpoint that I agree with p&y, I don't. I also know that cell cameras have limitations. I use them on my property and half the time they don't send photos as they should.

If entering an animal into p&y is that important to you, better voice it to them with some factual information and get them to reverse their decision. I could care less about entering animals into record books (probably because I never shoot anything big enough anyway), so the rule has no impact on me. Find some folks that share your view and ban together if it seems important to you.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

 

[jakelogsdon]

It's not a law or regulation that prohibits you from anything besides entering an animal into the P&Y record book, so you don't have a leg to stand on in my opinion. If you don't like, don't me a member or enter an animal, easy. I'm not saying this from a standpoint that I agree with p&y, I don't. I also know that cell cameras have limitations. I use them on my property and half the time they don't send photos as they should.

If entering an animal into p&y is that important to you, better voice it to them with some factual information and get them to reverse their decision. I could care less about entering animals into record books (probably because I never shoot anything big enough anyway), so the rule has no impact on me. Find some folks that share your view and ban together if it seems important to you.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

I agree with their position as well. If I was Hunting Czar, I'd ban the use of them completely.

This comment ^above^ is what I have the issue with. This is my leg to stand on..... This is what pissed me off.

My comments above that post are very rational and explanatory. The reason I made this post 2 months ago is because I wanted to find out if anyone else felt like it was wrong and possibly bring it to the attention of P&Y. but apparently Hunters have no issues with organizations making rulings that remove certain things, as long as it doesn't impact them directly

 

[deerhunt1988]

This comment ^above^ is what I have the issue with. This is my leg to stand on..... This is what pissed me off.

My comments above that post are very rational and explanatory. The reason I made this post 2 months ago is because I wanted to find out if anyone else felt like it was wrong and possibly bring it to the attention of P&Y. but apparently Hunters have no issues with organizations making rulings that remove certain things, as long as it doesn't impact them directly

There is a major difference in an organization making a rule vs. a state wildlife agency or federal government making a rule.

From Pope & Young's website:

From its beginnings, the Pope and Young Club established, defined and maintains an ethical code of hunting referred to as FAIR CHASE. The concept of fair chase bowhunting is the very core of the Club’s belief system and one of our major advocacy focuses.

Seems to me the organization leaders thought cell-cam technology was encroaching on fair chase. Props to them for doing something about it and remaining true to their mission statement!

And best of all? It doesn't have any significant effect on hunters other than possibly not getting your name in a book! Of course if you are 'doing it for the gram' and for the 'record book', I guess it really is a blow to your ego.

 

[Bubblehide]

OP you sound rather butt hurt about a decision based on Fair-Chase. Simply put, knowing the exact location of an animal is NOT Fair-Chase, plain and simple. Get over yourself already.

 

[jakelogsdon]

There is a major difference in an organization making a rule vs. a state wildlife agency or federal government making a rule.

From Pope & Young's website:

From its beginnings, the Pope and Young Club established, defined and maintains an ethical code of hunting referred to as FAIR CHASE. The concept of fair chase bowhunting is the very core of the Club’s belief system and one of our major advocacy focuses.

Seems to me the organization leaders thought cell-cam technology was encroaching on fair chase. Props to them for doing something about it and remaining true to their mission statement!

And best of all? It doesn't have any significant effect on hunters other than possibly not getting your name in a book! Of course if you are 'doing it for the gram' and for the 'record book', I guess it really is a blow to your ego.

Here you go again spouting off jargon and quoting things you probably just looked up. FYI: Personally I don't have any form of social media and have a 169" whitetail currently in Pope and Young that's ranked #3366. Having some uninformed person attempt to educate me on what "fair chase" is rather annoying. P&Y and their regs is something I wanted to have a discussion about, not have you tell me that you personally would ban cell cameras all together if given the chance. If you have some actual information to share on why you think using a cell camera isn't fair chase. Please share.

 

[jakelogsdon]

OP you sound rather butt hurt about a decision based on Fair-Chase. Simply put, knowing the exact location of an animal is NOT Fair-Chase, plain and simple. Get over yourself already.

Do you spot and stalk hunt?

 

[jakelogsdon]

OP you sound rather butt hurt about a decision based on Fair-Chase. Simply put, knowing the exact location of an animal is NOT Fair-Chase, plain and simple. Get over yourself already.

You stating your opinion as fact is extremely arrogant. You might need to get over yourself bud. A cell camera is a tool it has allowed me to scout with less impact on the areas I and others hunt (which is 99 percent public land). It has helped me learn a lot about whitetails as well. One thing without a doubt a cell camera has never done is assist me in killing a deer.