Cartridges that get the most out of handloading

[JGRaider]

Most any cartridge can be maximized by handloading IMO.

 

[CCooper]

Do you people think that the PRC cartridges are already near their performance threshold in factory ammo, or can the 6.5 PRC, 300 PRC, and 7 PRC be pushed a bit more with handloading?

6.5 and 300 PRC's definitely benefit from handloading, can't speak to the 7PRC yet.

 

[XLR]

Do you people think that the PRC cartridges are already near their performance threshold in factory ammo, or can the 6.5 PRC, 300 PRC, and 7 PRC be pushed a bit more with handloading?

I think it depends a little on barrel length too. In my 18 inch 6.5 PRC the factory 147 was still running 2900 FPS. I didn't touch the reloading equipment after getting those velocities!

 

[CCooper]

I think it depends a little on barrel length too. In my 18 inch 6.5 PRC the factory 147 was still running 2900 FPS. I didn't touch the reloading equipment after getting those velocities!

With a suppressor? My 22" unsuppressed would only do 2840 average with 143 box ammo.

 

[XLR]

With a suppressor? My 22" unsuppressed would only do 2840 average with 143 box ammo.

Unsuppressed. I shot it and then went home and ran the bore scope through to make sure there wasnt a carbon ring. The shot again out to distance and it verified all the way out. Made me scratch my head a little bit too!

 

[OXN939]

30-06

'06 Is at the top of the list for me. I've come up with loads for two different rifles pushing 168 grain TSXs over 2900 FPS without ever finding pressure... pretty close to magnum territory, and certainly plenty for anything in North America

 

[35WhelenAI]

Rick M.,

In short, if the modern cartridges you asked about, which have a SAAMI spec of 65,000 psi, are handloaded faster than factory loads, it's because they are being loaded to a higher pressure by the handloader.

There is nothing magical about it. The exception would be with bullets that by design, reduce initial engraving pressure as the bullet meets the bore and allow for higher powder charges to maintain max pressure of 65,000 psi for longer in the barrel, thus increasing velocity. Some Hammers are in that category.

Velocity is pressure. If a handloader gets more velocity with comparable bullets to a factory load, pressure is higher than factory loads. Get a larger cartridge (i.e case) instead of pushing a smaller case past SAAMI specs.

In days of yore, hand loading was done primarily to develop a load that shot more accurately in (mostly) mass produced Remington 700's, Win M70's, Ruger M77's, etc.

Some loads shoot better than others in a specific rifle. However, back in the day there were 3 main ammo manufacturers (Rem, Win, Fed). If you wanted 150 gr bullets for your 30-06 you had one choice from each, same with 165's, 180's. Manufacturing tolerances, quality control, etc weren't, and couldn't be, as tight as they are now. Handloading could pretty much be counted on to improve accuracy by experimenting just like we do now.

However, with the plethora of factory loads available for many cartridges and the superior manufacturing capabilities for ammo and guns alike, it's pretty much a given there will be one or more factory loads that shoot as well or better than a handload. Or a guy will spend a lot of time and hard to find components trying for that small remaining amount of accuracy over a factory load.

As an example, a big part of the reason the 280AI is looked on so fondly, is the the industry standard of 65,000 psi. The 280 Remington is limited to 60,000 psi by industry standards. Comparatively speaking, it's a pressure increase of roughly 17%. That's a healthy amount. The 280 AI is not magical, but seems as much because it is loaded to a higher pressure vs the standard 280 Rem.

35 Whelen SAAMI pressure is 62,00 psi. Having it chambered to the Ackley Improved version (or working up loads for the standard version) and working up loads, it is pretty easy to load to bit higher velocity. 65,000 psi is a fairly common threshold with factory rounds released for modem firearms that aren't at risk to be fired in older and weaker actions.

The 6.5 Creedmoor has a SAAMI spec of 62,000 psi, so some gain can be had if we use a logical threshold of 65,000 psi in a modern gun.

6.8 Western is loaded to 65,000 psi so if guys start getting higher velocities (by an appreciable amount) they ARE running higher pressure than similar factory loads.

The caveat/exception is bullets such as some Hammers (I am sure there are others) that can achieve higher velocity with larger powder charges than most bullets available to the reloader. They aren't running higher pressure if loads are worked up correctly, but getting more velocity by the larger volume of gas propelling the bullet down the bore because those bullets reduce initial pressure by design of how they engage the rifling as they leave the case.

The TSX/TTSX would be another example. They can be pushed to higher velocity than the original Barnes X because of less bearing surface due to the grooves in the shank. Thus lowering pressure in the bore, allowing for slightly higher powder charges which put more area under the pressure curve and keep safe pressure for longer in the barrel.

 

[Rick M.]

Thanks for the great post, @35WhelenAI.

 

[z987k]

Rick M.,

In short, if the modern cartridges you asked about, which have a SAAMI spec of 65,000 psi, are handloaded faster than factory loads, it's because they are being loaded to a higher pressure by the handloader.

There is nothing magical about it. The exception would be with bullets that by design, reduce initial engraving pressure as the bullet meets the bore and allow for higher powder charges to maintain max pressure of 65,000 psi for longer in the barrel, thus increasing velocity. Some Hammers are in that category.

Velocity is pressure. If a handloader gets more velocity with comparable bullets to a factory load, pressure is higher than factory loads. Get a larger cartridge (i.e case) instead of pushing a smaller case past SAAMI specs.

In days of yore, hand loading was done primarily to develop a load that shot more accurately in (mostly) mass produced Remington 700's, Win M70's, Ruger M77's, etc.

Some loads shoot better than others in a specific rifle. However, back in the day there were 3 main ammo manufacturers (Rem, Win, Fed). If you wanted 150 gr bullets for your 30-06 you had one choice from each, same with 165's, 180's. Manufacturing tolerances, quality control, etc weren't, and couldn't be, as tight as they are now. Handloading could pretty much be counted on to improve accuracy by experimenting just like we do now.

However, with the plethora of factory loads available for many cartridges and the superior manufacturing capabilities for ammo and guns alike, it's pretty much a given there will be one or more factory loads that shoot as well or better than a handload. Or a guy will spend a lot of time and hard to find components trying for that small remaining amount of accuracy over a factory load.

As an example, a big part of the reason the 280AI is looked on so fondly, is the the industry standard of 65,000 psi. The 280 Remington is limited to 60,000 psi by industry standards. Comparatively speaking, it's a pressure increase of roughly 17%. That's a healthy amount. The 280 AI is not magical, but seems as much because it is loaded to a higher pressure vs the standard 280 Rem.

35 Whelen SAAMI pressure is 62,00 psi. Having it chambered to the Ackley Improved version (or working up loads for the standard version) and working up loads, it is pretty easy to load to bit higher velocity. 65,000 psi is a fairly common threshold with factory rounds released for modem firearms that aren't at risk to be fired in older and weaker actions.

The 6.5 Creedmoor has a SAAMI spec of 62,000 psi, so some gain can be had if we use a logical threshold of 65,000 psi in a modern gun.

6.8 Western is loaded to 65,000 psi so if guys start getting higher velocities (by an appreciable amount) they ARE running higher pressure than similar factory loads.

The caveat/exception is bullets such as some Hammers (I am sure there are others) that can achieve higher velocity with larger powder charges than most bullets available to the reloader. They aren't running higher pressure if loads are worked up correctly, but getting more velocity by the larger volume of gas propelling the bullet down the bore because those bullets reduce initial pressure by design of how they engage the rifling as they leave the case.

The TSX/TTSX would be another example. They can be pushed to higher velocity than the original Barnes X because of less bearing surface due to the grooves in the shank. Thus lowering pressure in the bore, allowing for slightly higher powder charges which put more area under the pressure curve and keep safe pressure for longer in the barrel.

I would add that in addition to this, when running a short action cartridge in a medium or long action with a custom throat, you can also pick up some velocity because you seat the bullet further out of the case, which allows you to put a little bit more powder in while keeping under 65kpsi.

 

[Rich M]

Memory says we were shooting 165s at 3000+ out of 3006. The rifle kicked like a mule and the deer would go down like hit by Thor's hammer. I dropped down to 2900 fps 150s and the deer die just as quickly but not with the theatrics of hitting them with those 165s.

Went on to reload 357 mag for rifle and am getting 1900-2000 fps with 158 and 165 gr bullets over chrono. HP style bullet groups start to spread at 150 yards and pointy type bullets shoot great at 200 yards. Not too shabby for handgun cartridge. Most guys talk about 357 mag rifle groups at 50 yards, so it's a step up and out.

Doing similar stuff with 350 Legend. Less results than the 3006 or 357 mag but about 150 fps over factory ammo and tighter groups. Saving money on the hotter loads, buying the $16/box of 20 to use for target shooting and brass cause it is cheaper than I can reload em for.

Reloading is a hobby and what you do to maximize whatever you are shooting. It is no longer a way to save money - the components and factory prices are too close.

If you just want a hunting setup for 300 yds or less - test fire as many diff loads as you want and then when you find the magic bullet, buy 200-250 and 1,000 of the cheapest one that shoots close to it for target practice. Shoot 50 target loads and 6 hunt bullets at targets 200-250-300 yds, leaves you with 4 to kill a deer or two or an elk with. About 20 years worth of hunting right there. Ultimately you will spend much less than getting set up and then reloading.

 

[wayno945]

7x57 is the cartridge I've seen the most improvement. Loaded long, with Rl17 and the 150 Ablr, I get a solid 2900 fps out of my modern M70 featherweight.

 

[35WhelenAI]

7x57 is the cartridge I've seen the most improvement. Loaded long, with Rl17 and the 150 Ablr, I get a solid 2900 fps out of my modern M70 featherweight.

That's a great example. Pressure spec for the 7x57 is set really low. Reloading would make a big difference.

 

[6mm Remington]

'06 Is at the top of the list for me. I've come up with loads for two different rifles pushing 168 grain TSXs over 2900 FPS without ever finding pressure... pretty close to magnum territory, and certainly plenty for anything in North America

My 30-06 Ruger 1B shoots either the 165 gr. Accubond or the Partition at 2940 fps using IMR4350. With some of the newer powders I'm sure I could get over 3000 fps but it shoots crazy good and this is still heading out there at a pretty good clip.

 

[A382DWDZQ]

Did they discontinue it? I just checked the rifle selector on their site today and didn't see it as an offering.

Choose your own Tikka rifle from a variety of innovative models

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Looks like they did. Shows up as an option in their 2021 catalog for the laminate, and it looks like it used to be in others.

 

[A382DWDZQ]

Any reason you prefer the -08 over the 280 AI for that weight range? I know the -08 is very efficient with powder (around 20g difference).

I like the 280 AI also, but I’d say several reasons l prefer the 7’08. It is pretty efficient. I’m not looking for a long range gun with it. 500 yards would be an anomaly. I’m more in the 300 and under. I feel like it does well with reduced recoil loads for kids. For the heavier bullets, i need even less range because that for moose and they’ll be in close. I can resize 308 brass for it if needed. I have some Lapua Palma cases resized to 7’08 so I can use SRP or SRM primers. Stock guns are cheaper and more selection available. I know some of these reasons could cross over to the 280 AI, so maybe I’m just emotionally invested…and I can’t afford a new rifle right now .

 

[ZAK13]

With the advent of newer powders, cartridges like the 243,270, 30-06, 308, etc., all get new life breathed into them. Honestly, some of these newer cartridges are really pointless, except to those manufacturing them for sale. Out to 500 yards, they're all pretty equal and will get the job done, yes, there are a few newer cartridges that really shine past the 500 yard mark, but how many out there regularly shoot game past that 500 yard mark.

 

[Rick M.]

I like the 280 AI also, but I’d say several reasons l prefer the 7’08. It is pretty efficient. I’m not looking for a long range gun with it. 500 yards would be an anomaly. I’m more in the 300 and under. I feel like it does well with reduced recoil loads for kids. For the heavier bullets, i need even less range because that for moose and they’ll be in close. I can resize 308 brass for it if needed. I have some Lapua Palma cases resized to 7’08 so I can use SRP or SRM primers. Stock guns are cheaper and more selection available. I know some of these reasons could cross over to the 280 AI, so maybe I’m just emotionally invested…and I can’t afford a new rifle right now .

Excellent line of reasoning. It’s certainly an under appreciated cartridge.

 

[rmarshall]

Lots of great cartridges can benefit from reloading, all mine do. Our 260s, 270 wins, 7mm-08 and My 280 AI. It is shooting 160 Accubonds over R26 at 3065, Not 3100 but pretty close and I have zero pressure and room to go.