Carry more in your pack or break laws for survival?

[stumblinhorse]

I think it comes down to your definition of life threatening and how prepared you are. I don’t take fire stuff during a ban because I know I don’t need it. If that causes me to die, so be it. But I always have enough stuff to survive a couple of really bad nights with me. Always.

 

[Maverick1]

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I think it comes down to your definition of life threatening and how prepared you are. I don’t take fire stuff during a ban because I know I don’t need it. If that causes me to die, so be it. But I always have enough stuff to survive a couple of really bad nights with me. Always.

How much does your "fire stuff" weigh that you are putting this much thought into shuffling gear versus just leaving that stuff in your pack?

 

[jmez]

Pretty simple really. I'd do what I thought I needed to survive.

 

[Jimmy]

Jokes aside, yeah I will always have something to start a fire in my pack.

 

[stumblinhorse]

How much does your "fire stuff" weigh that you are putting this much thought into shuffling gear versus just leaving that stuff in your pack?

It is just a bag with cotton balls, lighter, and one of those flint mag wooden thingies. I just leave it out.

And I appreciate that you can have a discussion about stuff you don’t agree with or don’t practice.

 

[jdvangeystel]

Those saying they can’t imagine having to have a fire to survive during a time of a fire ban apparently haven’t spent much time in areas with a fire ban. Currently there is a fire ban until Oct 15th where I live- By October 15th we will have freezing temps over night. Just a week and a half ago in the wilderness unit I was hunting we got about 1.25” of rain in 10 hours, and then had overnight lows in the low 30’s. A fire ban also includes the use of a stove in a hot tent/tipi to dry out as well. If you got caught in a storm like that, away from shelter, and got yourself soaking wet and refused to start a fire overnight you’d be putting yourself at risk of being in pretty bad shape- I can think of countless times during a burn ban where I’ve woke up to snow overnight- I haven’t had to start a fire for survival because I didn’t put myself in a bad situation, but it’s very very common to have weather during a burn ban that could kill you without a fire


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[stumblinhorse]

Those saying they can’t imagine having to have a fire to survive during a time of a fire ban apparently haven’t spent much time in areas with a fire ban. Currently there is a fire ban until Oct 15th where I live- By October 15th we will have freezing temps over night. Just a week and a half ago in the wilderness unit I was hunting we got about 1.25” of rain in 10 hours, and then had overnight lows in the low 30’s. A fire ban also includes the use of a stove in a hot tent/tipi to dry out as well. If you got caught in a storm like that, away from shelter, and got yourself soaking wet and refused to start a fire overnight you’d be putting yourself at risk of being in pretty bad shape- I can think of countless times during a burn ban where I’ve woke up to snow overnight- I haven’t had to start a fire for survival because I didn’t put myself in a bad situation, but it’s very very common to have weather during a burn ban that could kill you without a fire


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So why do you think that the ban has no leeway for survival situations?

 

[Jstumbaugh]

I'd start a fire and roast a bald eagle if it meant keeping my family alive in a survival situation.

 

[Billogna]

It is just a bag with cotton balls, lighter, and one of those flint mag wooden thingies. I just leave it out.

And I appreciate that you can have a discussion about stuff you don’t agree with or don’t practice.

So I'm genuinely curious. Do you leave these items at home because there might be a temptation to use them?

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

It is just a bag with cotton balls, lighter, and one of those flint mag wooden thingies. I just leave it out.

And I appreciate that you can have a discussion about stuff you don’t agree with or don’t practice.

In my mind its light and I keep my possible pouch stocked the same way all the time so I don't forget to put something back in after taking it out for a given hunt or such. I got other things to worry about and pounds on my waist to loose too versus worrying about a few ounces of fire starter. That's just me.

Your main point sounds like it was be prepared to survive without a fire, this emphasis on your side of not carrying fire starter just muddies the point I think you wanted to make.

 

[stumblinhorse]

So I'm genuinely curious. Do you leave these items at home because there might be a temptation to use them?

Depends, it’s in a tote for truck camping. I have a different lighter in with my stove for cooking and that stays together. If there is no ban I will throw it in, but that has not been the case in the few years. So I guess for the most part my mentality is towards surviving without a fire.

 

[stumblinhorse]

In my mind its light and I keep my possible pouch stocked the same way all the time so I don't forget to put something back in after taking it out for a given hunt or such. I got other things to worry about and pounds on my waist to loose too versus worrying about a few ounces of fire starter. That's just me.

Your main point sounds like it was be prepared to survive without a fire, this emphasis on your side of not carrying fire starter just muddies the point I think you wanted to make.

99% of the time I am solo(not surprising to anyone here). Yes my emphasis is survive without a fire when it is banned. Pack as if you “have to”. Then do what you are comfortable doing. If anyone is packing less because they will start a fire during a ban, that I don’t agree with.

 

[jdvangeystel]

So why do you think that the ban has no leeway for survival situations?

I don’t think that at all- I’d start a fire in a heartbeat if I needed too- what I am saying is there’s a lot of times there’s a burn ban and you’d have to try really hard to start a forest fire, and incliment weather is very possible during a burn ban, people seem to think that’s not the case- It would still technically breaking the law, but I don’t think Smokey the Bear is gonna be too upset at you if you have to start a fire to survive during a burn ban
If you’re asking why the law doesn’t have something written about leeway for survival- it’s because that leaves the door open for idiots to burn the woods down and a lot of people lack common sense

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[dhaulagiri]

The farthest point from a road in CO in the weminuche is only a half a days walk, an axe is about the same weight as a lightweight tent, pad, and sleeping bag. Aside from accidentally falling in a creek, there is little reason to NEED to start a fire if you're properly prepared

 

[Jimmy]

Is the intent of the law to prevent experienced, level headed, careful adults in a survival situation to NOT save their life? No.

Is the law intended to keep idiots and irresponsible people from playing with fire and burning the entire forest down? Yes.

To me its as simple as that.

 

[stumblinhorse]

I don’t think that at all- I’d start a fire in a heartbeat if I needed too- what I am saying is there’s a lot of times there’s a burn ban and you’d have to try really hard to start a forest fire- but it’s still technically breaking the law


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Then let me take a shot. There is no leeway because there would be more forest fires, since many would just claim they felt like they would die if they didn’t have one. But I agree sometimes it would be hard to start a forest fire. But sounds like you plan accordingly which is the same as I do.

 

[stumblinhorse]

Is the intent of the law to prevent experienced, level headed, careful adults in a survival situation to NOT save their life? No.

Is the law intended to keep idiots and irresponsible people from playing with fire and burning the entire forest down? Yes.

To me its as simple as that.

I wish it were that simple…. It shows in the huge uptick in SAR calls now with SOS on all phones and Garmins…

 

[Pony Soldier]

I have encountered people that light a fire every time they sit down. I have matches in my coat all the time. I have hunted since 1963. Since 1974 I have camped 3-4 months per year for my job. In that time I have built two fires - in a snow bank and hoar frost. Both time for my kids while I quartered an elk and loaded them on horses.

Plan accordingly. Your don't need a fire unless you fell into a creek and then with some question.

 

[AZ8]

(grasping for the thread topic in a hellish wind...)

It's hard to imagine a scenario where there's a fire ban and I feel the need to start a fire to survive. As many commented in other threads: if you have a functional shelter and some insulation, you're almost certainly better off getting in and under those things than dorking around with a fire in inclement weather.

But if I was in such a scenario... I would start a fire. I would not turn myself in afterwards.

Not going to comment on the OP, but this scenario actually played out here in Arizona in June 2002 contributing to the Rodeo-Chediski fire, the second largest wildfire in Arizona history, 470,000 acres.

A lost ATV rider started a fire to signal a helicopter crew that was reporting on another wild land fire not far from this lost soul. As expected, starting an uncontrolled fire in the dry June winds here in Arizona during fire restrictions, well, doesn’t go over well! lol

Ironically, this “lost” ATV rider was less than 2 miles from the main road! Guess she got scared.

She owes the WMAT $57,000,000 in restitution.