California Revolver Hunting: .357 v .44

[RolandofGilead]

Hi all,

I'm excited about trying my hand at deer hunting with a revolver. I've done a fair bit of research (there are opinions out there), but I'm hoping this forum can help me with an unanswered question.

California requires the use of lead-free, soft-nose or expanding bullets. Given that limitation for ammunition, is a 140 grain copper HP .357 ethical for blacktail when fired from a 5.5" revolver?

Please assume the following:
Shots taken would be 50 yards or less.
Well-practiced shooter.
Iron sights.
Commercial ammo only (Buffalo Bore, Barnes, Etc.)

My hunch is that when using copper ammo, .44 mag is the way to go. But given my interest in closer range and disinterest in optics or attempting to pust it out past 50 yards, I'm unsure. Hopefully, other's experience will be informative.

If .44 is the way to go then so be it, that's what I'll buy. I just think I'll enjoy shooting a .357 more.

Thanks all.

 

[7RemMag]

Edit: After Reading the post again and the reply of another, I came to the realization that you've not yet purchased a handgun. I've made a few changes to my original post as a result.

In the distances you're naming, I can't see why a .357 loaded pretty modestly wouldn't work. I have killed one whitetail doe with my 6" 629 .44 magnum. That was with a 240 grain Hornady XTP loaded about as hot as was comfortable to shoot. Of course, that's not an option for you given your location. The .357 will absolutely be more enjoyable for you to shoot if limited to factory ammunition, but if handloading, the .44 magnum can be loaded vastly different ways ranging from joyful to painful to shoot. I find most factory loads in my .44 magnum to be fairly tame, but my 629 has a little bit of heft and a nice rubbery hogue grip. The way either cartridge handles when shooting is going to vary depending on the design.

Monolithics generally perform best when pushed fast, but those monlithics designed for handgun rounds are going to be optimized for performance at handgun velocities.

Regardless of which cartridge you choose, I'd recommend picking up a box or two of "hunting" ammo and getting yourself plenty of cheaper ammo to practice with. Run a few of the hunting ammo through to make sure it shoots good in your gun, then go to shooting your practice ammunition. I'd place far more stock in making sure that you're shooting the handgun well as opposed to an exact load to use. Focus on making sure you can make a good shot.

Depending on how much experience you have with handguns, I'd recommend picking yourself up a .22 Revolver as well. Practicing with it is much cheaper.

 

[onlybrowning]

Are you purchasing either way? If so, what revolvers are you considering? A .44mag that has some weight to it and a grip that is comfortable to you could end up being very tolerable.

Some people prefer single action grips (consider Bisley as well) and some prefer certain double action grips. For me, I greatly prefer the GP100/Super Redhawk grip to any exposed backstrap double action. For single action, I like a rubber grip over a grip that rolls in my hand. Many (probably most) prefer a single action grip that rolls.

Obviously, hand loading would be ideal, but with either caliber you could particle with specials or other lower recoil loads.


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[RolandofGilead]

Thank you both.

I do not own either and will be purchasing either way. At this point, I'm waffling between the two calibers in a 5.5" Redhawk. I've not shot either, but I like how they feel in hand. I don't know if it's my larger hand size, but single action grips don't feel natural for me and the pinky under wrap bothers me. Lastly, I'd prefer to carry it on the hip (versus a chest holster) when hunting, so I've convinced myself that a 7.5" barrel isn't what I'm looking for.

Since the .44 Redhawk weighs 3 pounds (that seems hefty), I imagine it soaks up a bit of felt recoil and make practice shooting manageable and enjoyable, especially with practice ammo.

I'm still a bit wrapped around the axle about the ethics of hunting with 140 grain .357 HPs when 225-240 grain .44 is an option as well. But I think what I take from your responses is that moderate .44 ammo from a full-size revolver isn't necessarily going to knock my fillings out.

Thanks again.

 

[onlybrowning]

Thank you both.

I do not own either and will be purchasing either way. At this point, I'm waffling between the two calibers in a 5.5" Redhawk. I've not shot either, but I like how they feel in hand. I don't know if it's my larger hand size, but single action grips don't feel natural for me and the pinky under wrap bothers me. Lastly, I'd prefer to carry it on the hip (versus a chest holster) when hunting, so I've convinced myself that a 7.5" barrel isn't what I'm looking for.

Since the .44 Redhawk weighs 3 pounds (that seems hefty), I imagine it soaks up a bit of felt recoil and make practice shooting manageable and enjoyable, especially with practice ammo.

I'm still a bit wrapped around the axle about the ethics of hunting with 140 grain .357 HPs when 225-240 grain .44 is an option as well. But I think what I take from your responses is that moderate .44 ammo from a full-size revolver isn't necessarily going to knock my fillings out.

Thanks again.

I would strongly encourage you to shoot the Super Redhawk and the Redhawk. I prefer the look of the Redhawk, and the 5.5” barrel, but I do not like the exposed backstrap. I love the grip on the Super Redhawk and the GP100 (same exact grip). I’ve always wished they’d make a 6” Super Redhawk, but have simply settled for the 7.5”.

If you are still considering .357, I’d strongly consider the GP100 with a 6” barrel. Very manageable with the heaviest loads.


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[RolandofGilead]

@onlybrowning I'll try to, but don't know anyone who owns either, nor have I seen one in a local or semi-local shop. How do folks test firearms out? I just haven't found a way to do so in my area, but I admit I'm pretty new to handguns.

Do you think a big, rubber Hogue grip on a Redhawk would achieve the comfort of a Super Redhawk?
And I'll add the 6" GP100 to the short list. Thanks.

 

[onlybrowning]

The Hogue Tamer grip provides the most backstrap padding that I’m aware of, but I don’t believe the Tamer is made for the Redhawk. Hogue makes a grip for it, but it leaves the backstrap exposed. This is the case for the Security Six revolver as well.


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[Trumpkin The Dwarf]

Somewhere on the internet I recently read about a guy pushing cutting edge bullets as fast as possible out of a .44 mag and getting much better results from handguns.

Found it:

Mono Metal Bullets…A multi year Study - Handgun Hunting Afield

I am always looking for the best mouse trap available. Hunting costs a good bit of money and takes a considerable investment of time; I never want my gear to hold me back. When handgun hunting, I am generally hunting in the remote areas of Wyoming in various terrain; from forested mountains to...

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.44 mag is not a terrible round to shoot well under 50 yards (controlled slow fire rate) if you can control your trigger press.

 

[fuzzymarindave]

I'm partial to single action revolver. Using a 7-1/2" barrel Super Blackhawk in .44 Mag I let the recoil rotate the curved gun grip within my right hand. This allows me to get back on target for a quick follow up shot(s). I cock the hammer with my left thumb. You can't really use that method with a double action revolver, you just have to brace for the recoil. Plus I can't imaging taking any follow up shots double action although I suppose more practice could make it feasible.

 

[7RemMag]

Thank you both.

I do not own either and will be purchasing either way. At this point, I'm waffling between the two calibers in a 5.5" Redhawk. I've not shot either, but I like how they feel in hand. I don't know if it's my larger hand size, but single action grips don't feel natural for me and the pinky under wrap bothers me. Lastly, I'd prefer to carry it on the hip (versus a chest holster) when hunting, so I've convinced myself that a 7.5" barrel isn't what I'm looking for.

Since the .44 Redhawk weighs 3 pounds (that seems hefty), I imagine it soaks up a bit of felt recoil and make practice shooting manageable and enjoyable, especially with practice ammo.

I'm still a bit wrapped around the axle about the ethics of hunting with 140 grain .357 HPs when 225-240 grain .44 is an option as well. But I think what I take from your responses is that moderate .44 ammo from a full-size revolver isn't necessarily going to knock my fillings out.

Thanks again.

I strongly encourage you to reconsider the "chest holster" decision. The link I'm providing is an awesome chest holster that makes carrying my .44 a pleasure, and it's more accessible in my opinion than a chest holster. It's a bit spendy, but in my opinion, there's nothing else to match it anywhere, other than the leather alternative by their sister company.

I've shot a S&W Model 686 in .357 which is quite comparable to MyModel 629. My 629 loaded pretty warm is definitely not unmanageably, and I have pretty "bony" hands. The .357 is most definitely a little tamer. Of the two, the .44 is arguably a little more versatile, but I wouldn't feel undergunned with either of the two for deer. Heck, I wouldn't feel undergunned with a .357 with stout hard cast projectiles in bear country if it's what I already had.

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[TaperPin]

I highly recommend a good padded shooting glove. It will make practice with either cartridge more enjoyable. Black tails up north aren’t all that big so either cartridge will work. Of the two if you reload I’d go with the 44 mag because you may find shooting past 50 yards to be interesting, but there is the issue of recoil and practicing with full power loads isn’t as much fun as it could be. Anyone can work up to the recoil level of the pistols you’re talking about, but it the heavier the recoil, the more work it could be. Ideally you’d get a 357 first and after shooting it successfully move up to the 44 if you feel the need. A great advantage to the 357 if you don’t handload is 38 special ammo to practice with. On the hip I’d rather carry a 357 than a 44.

I wouldn’t judge single actions by factory grips - if you get to look at used revolvers there are often a wide range of aftermarket grips and you might find something that feels good. Hogue and Pachmayr both make grips that fit the hand well and lengthen the grip.


The cool thing is you can’t go wrong with either cartridge or any of the pistols you’re looking at. It’s kind of like getting a first shotgun, until you get to shoot one a lot it’s hard to know exactly what you’ll like.

 

[TaperPin]

As you start shooting, beware there are some instructional videos that try to force the use of a semi auto grip on a revolver and the off hand thumb is right up along the cylinder - getting the tip of your thumb near the front of the cylinder will get you injured.

 

[Jacack]

Lots
of good advice here, all i can add is there was a area here in fl that didn't allow center fire rifles during the small game season but allowed taking of hogs so I chose to use a pistol that I already had. A smith trr8 , definitely not a hunting pistol but loaded with underwood ammo i bet I took 20+ hogs over a few seasons with no issues. shots under 40 yards and pigs up to about 150lbs

 

[Caseknife]

140 Barnes XPB out of a 6" 357 will work on deer just fine. Ruger, Smith take your pick.

 

[buffybr]

As you start shooting, beware there are some instructional videos that try to force the use of a semi auto grip on a revolver and the off hand thumb is right up along the cylinder - getting the tip of your thumb near the front of the cylinder will get you injured.

I'm totally confused here. I've had and have been shooting pistols since the late 1960s. As an Army Intelligence Officer in Vietnam, the only weapon that I was issued there was a 1911 .45 acp. Shortly after returning home I bought my first .357 magnum pistol, a Ruger Blackhawk, and my first 1911 .45 acp.

My last 4 months of Active Duty, I was stationed at Ft Sill, OK where I was able to go to the base range after work and draw a 50 rd box of .45 acp ammo. I did that so often that a week before I was scheduled to be released from Active Duty, the base pistol team NCO saw me shooting one afternoon and asked me if I would like to try out for the base pistol team.

In the mid '70s I bought my first .44 magnum revolver, a 7 1/2" Super Blackhawk, that I've since shot several thousand rounds through. A few years ago I bought a S&W 4" Model 629 that I now shoot more than any of my other .44 mag pistols.

Since the early '80s I go to our local range at least once a week where I normally shoot 2 or 3 rifles prone at 9" gongs out to 430 yds, then 3 pistols (.44, .357, .45 acp) offhand at 9" steel gong at 25 yds, then I go the the shotgun side and shoot 2-4 lines of Skeet. Most days I'll finish one line of Skeet by shooting the station 8 targets with shot loads with my Model 629 .44 mag.

I say all of this to show that I am not new to pistol shooting, and I am confused because of your comment about "the use of a semi auto griip on a revolver (where) the off hand thumb is right up along the cylinder."

I have never heard of using a different grip for semi autos than for revolvers. I grip all pistols the same way: my right index finger on the trigger, the other 3 fingers around the grip, and my thumb goes around the pistol and points to the front. The fingers of my left hand grip around the 3 fingers of my right hand, and my left thumb points forward and is under my right thumb.

My glove size is XL and when I grip any pistol, single or double action, including my Ruger Single Six .22 LR, neither of my thumbs extend past the back of the revolver's cylinder. My thumbs would have to be 2" longer to reach the front of the cylinder.

 

[TaperPin]

I'm totally confused here. I've had and have been shooting pistols since the late 1960s. As an Army Intelligence Officer in Vietnam, the only weapon that I was issued there was a 1911 .45 acp. Shortly after returning home I bought my first .357 magnum pistol, a Ruger Blackhawk, and my first 1911 .45 acp.

My last 4 months of Active Duty, I was stationed at Ft Sill, OK where I was able to go to the base range after work and draw a 50 rd box of .45 acp ammo. I did that so often that a week before I was scheduled to be released from Active Duty, the base pistol team NCO saw me shooting one afternoon and asked me if I would like to try out for the base pistol team.

In the mid '70s I bought my first .44 magnum revolver, a 7 1/2" Super Blackhawk, that I've since shot several thousand rounds through. A few years ago I bought a S&W 4" Model 629 that I now shoot more than any of my other .44 mag pistols.

Since the early '80s I go to our local range at least once a week where I normally shoot 2 or 3 rifles prone at 9" gongs out to 430 yds, then 3 pistols (.44, .357, .45 acp) offhand at 9" steel gong at 25 yds, then I go the the shotgun side and shoot 2-4 lines of Skeet. Most days I'll finish one line of Skeet by shooting the station 8 targets with shot loads with my Model 629 .44 mag.

I say all of this to show that I am not new to pistol shooting, and I am confused because of your comment about "the use of a semi auto griip on a revolver (where) the off hand thumb is right up along the cylinder."

I have never heard of using a different grip for semi autos than for revolvers. I grip all pistols the same way: my right index finger on the trigger, the other 3 fingers around the grip, and my thumb goes around the pistol and points to the front. The fingers of my left hand grip around the 3 fingers of my right hand, and my left thumb points forward and is under my right thumb.

My glove size is XL and when I grip any pistol, single or double action, including my Ruger Single Six .22 LR, neither of my thumbs extend past the back of the revolver's cylinder. My thumbs would have to be 2" longer to reach the front of the cylinder.

I completely agree this is bonkers and it took me off guard since it’s never been a thing to worry about with any of the popular holds, but it’s only idiot proof until a smarter idiot comes along.

I heard Jerry Miculek mention to not do this so I became curious if this is something new and I didn’t have to look far - this pic is from a Taurus instructional video demonstrating the thumb forward hold. At least in the video the dude says if you have long fingers don’t do this. lol
As inconsistent as new shooters are, especially if practicing fast shooting at odd angles, I have no doubt more than one person watching this video has had gas burns on the tip of their thumb.

 

[TaperPin]

460 XVR accident - Graphic!

A friend sent me this in an email. It is amazing. I looked around the internet and this has happened more than just this one time. It may...

yorkpistol.blogspot.com

 

[RockAndSage]

OP, as mentioned, blacktails are on the small side, and either gun will do fine. That said, with handgun hunting and deer at sub-100yd ranges, velocity is not the name of the game. You don't need maximum penetration either, as you're not going after dangerous game, and shouldn't be taking shots that are full-frontal, facing away, or hard quartering either. The name of the game is whichever gun you can shoot better, followed by displacement (bullet size).

All that said, I'd personally choose the .44 - and would strongly consider shooting a good .44 Special load in it, in the conditions you described, just so it's less punishing and less flinch-inducing. You just don't need the power of a full-house .44 or .357 mag. Something like this loading would be plenty on a blacktail. Don't expect a bang-flop with any handgun though. Make your first shot count like it's your only one, and be prepared to track 100-200yds.

 

[buffybr]

View attachment 882161View attachment 882162View attachment 882160

460 XVR accident - Graphic!

A friend sent me this in an email. It is amazing. I looked around the internet and this has happened more than just this one time. It may...

yorkpistol.blogspot.com

Thanks for the pics. With your left hand that far forward, that is the most uncomfortable grip that I've ever tried.

I think that most people don't realize how much flame comes out of the cylinder/ barrel gap, especially in big bores like a .44 mag.

 

[Snowwolfe]

I vote for the 44 and reload the ammo yourself. Once you get a 240-300 grain slug going 1100 fps pushing it faster accomplishes nothing as far as killing deer up to 50 yards away. Hit the deer in the front shoulders and its going down. Double lung it and you will have complete penetration and a rapid bleed out.