California game management

Also I’ve seen more bears the past 5 years than I had pre ban of hunting with dogs. I even know a few guys who quit bear hunting and said they hope the bears **** up the deer herd just because they were so upset with the ban

I picked up - and plan to fill - a bear tag just to spite people saying things like that.
 
Plenty of bears to go around, that's for sure
D3-5 and b/c zones are the hardest hit seems.
There is a new bear regulation this year of keeping the hide intact until 15days after the end of season

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My guess is that there are many things at play in CA, with cats being just one factor.

In 1990, I worked for the forest service in N. CA and saw several lions in one summer, but my job had me in the field a lot, and especially at night much of the time which is when I saw all but one of the lions. I bumped into probably a dozen bears over the summer also (just driving or hiking, not glassing).

Logging was just starting to shut down with total fire suppression still in full swing. Their were few areas without roads on the district, except for some wilderness.

I saw a decent amount of deer, but most were young, spikes and forked horns about the size of big dogs. I think at that time there was a 3 pt antler restriction there? I remember some old timers telling me that the mid 70s to mid 80s had better deer hunting (not sure if they meant numbers or quality though).
 
IMO, the CDFW (usually) has their heart in the right place but are, ultimately, hamstrung by the political ideologies of the state government.

Take the recent dove opener, example. Dove season is usually a good time to get new hunters out. But, thanks to tow new regulations regarding ammunition (that were passed outside of CDFW), a large number of hunters could not participate due to being unable to procure ammo. Personally, I would not have been able to hunt doves on short notice because getting ammo was impossible.
 
Folks can't underestimate the impact the large/increasing bear population has had on the deer herd in CA. Not only do they seasonally prey on fawns, they are also documented to scavenge lion kills which cause lions to have to kill more frequently. Pigs are also noted to do the same during periods of high populations.

I do think the reasons behind the ~50% reduction in our deer herd over the past 25 years are complex, but one cannot discount predators as a significant factor. Add to that habitat degradation due to a reduction in logging and fire suppression (until the last few years), the impact of marijuana propagation, and habitat fragmentation/winter range reduction, our herd overall is under a lot of pressure.

I for one will be buying a bear tag every year from here on out.
 
Folks can't underestimate the impact the large/increasing bear population has had on the deer herd in CA. Not only do they seasonally prey on fawns, they are also documented to scavenge lion kills which cause lions to have to kill more frequently. Pigs are also noted to do the same during periods of high populations.

I do think the reasons behind the ~50% reduction in our deer herd over the past 25 years are complex, but one cannot discount predators as a significant factor. Add to that habitat degradation due to a reduction in logging and fire suppression (until the last few years), the impact of marijuana propagation, and habitat fragmentation/winter range reduction, our herd overall is under a lot of pressure.

I for one will be buying a bear tag every year from here on out.
I’ve bougjt 2 or 3 bear tags and always had opportunity to fill. But Am still unsure if I would even like the meat. And I don’t kill just to kill. I want to utilize the animal I take. Even if harvesting bears yearly helps with deer population.
 
I've bumped into wardens a few times scouting - one helped me with a tow out of a mud hole under the snow pack I was driving on. I was humping out to the Ranger Station when I bumped him sitting in his truck on the road.

Only one time in season: somebody poached a Tule opening weekend and they were asking around and checking tags. The others I've met outside the field have all seemed like the kinda folks I want out there.

It's the most dangerous job in law enforcement by the numbers, and they have my respect for doing it.
 
Everyone they deal with is armed just about. So yeah. I respect the hell out of them. And don’t do anything to get on their bad side or not want to bump into them.
 
One tag OTC would be a start, making all second tags premium, meaning you would have to fork over the preference points for a lowly A, B, C or D zone tag would appease the game hogs and help all the point hoarders get rid of their stash. X zones are already premium so it's no change there.
Maybe keep it to where you could get two AO tags OTC?
After all we bitch and complain that the deer have all been turned into cat shit, but we still feel the need to go put two on the ground every year. Then continue to complain afterwards there's no deer left.
As much as I like the idea of a 3 point or better rule the problem with that is the buzzards and our beloved condors will be eating a lot of rotting forkies. A lot of guys just see horns and start shaking like a leaf and start "sending" rounds. In theory the 3 point rule sounds good but I dont see it working properly. Maybe have 75 percent of a deer zones tags 3 point or better and 25 percent any buck with a fork. Draw for the any buck tag?
Elk, sheep and antelope.......good luck getting a tag for those. Demand far outweighs supply and the way the point system is setup it really screws any new hunter that didn't have skin in the game on day one. Good luck drawing from the your screwed quota, I mean random quota. you should catch my drift from that statement. But hey, you cant win if you dont play and the state will gladly take your application fees.
Predators left unmanaged will have a negative effect on deer. The drought we are coming out of had a negative effect on deer. The urbanites who decided to buy a 40 acre ranchette and let their dogs run wild and chase deer have a negative effect on deer. The corporations sterilizing the earth for timber products have a negative effect on deer. The assholes out in vineyards or row crop fields going overboard with depredation permits have a negative effect on deer.

Poaching, poaching anyone? Anyone want to take a guess on that number? Its already been stated in this thread that fish and wildlife is understaffed in this state, you really think they can put a dent in the poachers running black markets for meat and animal parts?
As convenient as it may be to shoot the messenger (fish and wildlife) they only have so much they can do or control.
 
I’ve bougjt 2 or 3 bear tags and always had opportunity to fill. But Am still unsure if I would even like the meat. And I don’t kill just to kill. I want to utilize the animal I take. Even if harvesting bears yearly helps with deer population.

If you kill them early before they put on a bunch of acorn fat, they are actually quite good. I've had game feeds for co-workers/non-hunters and some liked August bear more than elk or antelope.
 
Geez, with actual herd numbers stable or improving for the majority of herds, I don't get all the bitching and moaning. Have no problem finding legal bucks. Actually, I pass on several to numerous legal bucks every season.
 
Life long resident of California. The hunting will not improve here. It is managed by liberals that do want hunting in the first place. Every year they pass laws against hunters. Its never based on science, just emotion. The lead ban, mountain lions, hound hunting, proposed bobcat hunting ban, too many tags in some places, bears everywhere etc.

It will never improve.

I have 10 years and change until I reach full retirement. I will be moving.
 
Geez, with actual herd numbers stable or improving for the majority of herds, I don't get all the bitching and moaning. Have no problem finding legal bucks. Actually, I pass on several to numerous legal bucks every season.

Most of us are looking at the long term trend line which has our deer herd declining by half over the past 25 years. I for one am not going to pretend the problem is solved because a particular herd is only down 50% and not 52%, or because the trend has reversed and a herd is only down 48%.
 
I agree with the sentiment with regard to the long view, but don't delude yourselves into thinking that the 50/60s were normal, or will ever happen again.
 
I agree with the sentiment with regard to the long view, but don't delude yourselves into thinking that the 50/60s were normal, or will ever happen again.

Don't delude yourself into thinking the 50's and 60's were 25 years ago.
 
IMO, the CDFW (usually) has their heart in the right place but are, ultimately, hamstrung by the political ideologies of the state government.

Take the recent dove opener, example. Dove season is usually a good time to get new hunters out. But, thanks to tow new regulations regarding ammunition (that were passed outside of CDFW), a large number of hunters could not participate due to being unable to procure ammo. Personally, I would not have been able to hunt doves on short notice because getting ammo was impossible.
They had 3 years notice about the new ammo restrictions.

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Folks can't underestimate the impact the large/increasing bear population has had on the deer herd in CA. Not only do they seasonally prey on fawns, they are also documented to scavenge lion kills which cause lions to have to kill more frequently. Pigs are also noted to do the same during periods of high populations.

I do think the reasons behind the ~50% reduction in our deer herd over the past 25 years are complex, but one cannot discount predators as a significant factor. Add to that habitat degradation due to a reduction in logging and fire suppression (until the last few years), the impact of marijuana propagation, and habitat fragmentation/winter range reduction, our herd overall is under a lot of pressure.

I for one will be buying a bear tag every year from here on out.
Those marijuana grows also harvets meat of all sorts for camp.

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