Caliber for Daughter??

[taba]

When I shot a small buck 3 times, twice in the neck, basically decapitating it, and it was still trying to run off, I’ll pass. And it’s not like I used a poor bullet. 62 grain fusion.

No experience with the 77gr TMK then?

Your one experience trumps a thread full of them?

And that's a really odd experience - a nearly decapitated deer trying to run off?

Had a .243 nearly decapitated the deer, would it not have tried to run off?

Or do you argue a .243 would have decapitated the deer? Is that what you require?

 

[Pickettpuncher]

No experience with the 77gr TMK then?

Your one experience trumps a thread full of them?

And that's a really odd experience - a nearly decapitated deer trying to run off?

Had a .243 nearly decapitated the deer, would it not have tried to run off?

Or do you argue a .243 would have decapitated the deer? Is that what you require?

Nope. I just don’t think it’s the best available round out there. I also don’t use a 243 anymore. My experiences and yours may differ, but are either of us right or wrong? Doubtful. There’s better out there. And no, recoil isn’t whipping my kids.

 

[JCOREGON]

My daughter will be turning 10 in June so she will be old enough for Montana's hunter apprentice program. She is pretty small in stature so I don't want to overwhelm her with too big of a caliber, but was hoping to get something large enough for elk as she gets older. I'm thinking a .308, .270, or a 7mm-08. Anyone here have any experience with these for a young kiddo and how they handled the recoil?

My boys both shot 7mm-08’s when they were young and did very well with them. In fact, when I saw how well they were shooting and how deadly the 7mm-08 is, I gave up using my 300 win mag and bought a 7mm-08.

 

[taba]

My experiences and yours may differ, but are either of us right or wrong? Doubtful.

But this isn't a matter of opinion. Unlike our favorite color, there is an objectively best answer here. And it isn't based on either of our statistically insignificant experiences, but rather by those of someone like:

Because we’re not on a range face to face some clarity of how and why I say what I do. I work at a unique place. So far this year I have directly witnessed just shy of 400,000 rounds fired, 90% of those being recorded for score/time/group/zero. I have exceeded 60,000 rounds personally since Jan 1, and I’m on barrel replacement #8 I believe for rifles.

 

[taba]

And no, recoil isn’t whipping my kids.

Statistically significant experience says they'd likely shoot better with a .223:

The 20 century saw multiple US and British research projects that found when recoil exceeds between 10-14 ft-lbs (depending on which source), hit rates with rifles plummeted.
Given like weights- in this case 7lb identical rifles that are mechanically within .1 moa of each other, each jump in recoil basically adds 25-50% to the group size (really doubles the error in shots) on target from field positions for the vast majority of trained and untrained shooters. That is from sub 8 ft-lbs to 12’ish ft-lbs takes most shooters capable of consistently hitting a 1 moa target prone off a pack to a 1.5-2 moa hitter. From 12’ish to 16’ish takes them from a 1.5-2moa hitter to a 2-2.5 moa hitter. And from 16’ish to 20’ish takes them from a 2-2.5 moa hitter to a 2.5-3 moa hitter. And that’s in average and the most steady position possible. A change it to sitting or kneeling and it gets ugly quick.

Here’s something for everyone that thinks their children/wives/girlfriends have no problem shooting rifles with more recoil than a 223. Have them shoot from field positions- sitting over a top of a pack, off of shooting sticks, etc. Let them take a couple of shots at a target or smallish steel plate with a slight time limit. Say 10 seconds at 100-200 yards. Then talk to them about something (to distract them) while you act like you loaded the rifle. Hand it back to them letting them know it’s loaded and have them shoot again while you watch them- not the target. I guarantee you that they flinch. Probably terrifically so. It’s called a “ball and dummy” and it only works if the person truly believes the gun is loaded.
I can tell you that I have done it to hundreds of adult males, and dozens of children and females, and have had less than five (5) that don’t flinch. All of those that didn’t flinch is because they were trained specifically not to.

 

[Titan_Bow]

I really think this is where the AR style rifles shine. I built my son an AR chambered in 6.8SPC for his first hunting rifle. The carbine stock is great for small kids and has some growth built in. The recoil is very minimal, and some of the chamberings such as 6.5 Grendel or 6.8SPC or 6mm ARC have surprisingly capable ballistics.
I found that my son enjoyed going out and shooting the AR, while he did not enjoy shooting my 6.5CM, 270, or 308. He did take his first elk with the 6.5, but again, just getting him out and enjoying trigger time, it was the AR for sure.
On his first deer, he made a good shot but just a little back, got liver and back of lungs. He never came off the rifle, kept the deer in the scope the whole time and delivered a follow up shot that dropped him. Very low chances an 11 year is doing that with a bolt gun and traditional short action cartridge the first time they shoot a deer!

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[Desk Jockey]

300 win mag. The nicer the better. When it turns out to be too much gun, keep it for yourself and buy her something nicer to shoot.

 

[texasaggie09]

7mm-08 is hard to beat for a kid!

 

[HappyHuntr]

browning 6.8 western w/ muzz brake if you can you swing the price; shoot thr eyelashes of an elk weatherby Camilla 257 wby mag maybe

 

[jfk69]

I’ll be the oddball here, although I didn’t read all the pages so someone may have mentioned it. What about a .257 Robert’s?

 

[KenLee]

I’ll be the oddball here, although I didn’t read all the pages so someone may have mentioned it. What about a .257 Robert’s?

I keep a micro medallion in 257 Bob hidden away just in case I finally get a grandkid.

 

[HappyHuntr]

I really think this is where the AR style rifles shine. I built my son an AR chambered in 6.8SPC for his first hunting rifle. The carbine stock is great for small kids and has some growth built in. The recoil is very minimal, and some of the chamberings such as 6.5 Grendel or 6.8SPC or 6mm ARC have surprisingly capable ballistics.
I found that my son enjoyed going out and shooting the AR, while he did not enjoy shooting my 6.5CM, 270, or 308. He did take his first elk with the 6.5, but again, just getting him out and enjoying trigger time, it was the AR for sure.
On his first deer, he made a good shot but just a little back, got liver and back of lungs. He never came off the rifle, kept the deer in the scope the whole time and delivered a follow up shot that dropped him. Very low chances an 11 year is doing that with a bolt gun and traditional short action cartridge the first time they shoot a deer!

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+1 on that. Cool photo!

 

[f16jack]

I bought my daughter a 7mm-08. It's a great, low kicking, big game gun. It is a Browning A-Bolt II, left hand, youth model with a shorter stock. I load the same Berger 180's that I use in my 7mm Rem Mag and she is deadly with it.

Very manageble kick.

 

[HappyHuntr]

I’ll be the oddball here, although I didn’t read all the pages so someone may have mentioned it. What about a .257 Robert’s?

Love the bob, to hard to find though. That's why I recommended 257 wby mag. Actually pretty easy to find. Then I remembered it's for a youngster. Got my threads mixed up. Awesome picture @f16jack.

 

[f16jack]

Love the bob, to hard to find though. That's why I recommended 257 wby mag. Actually pretty easy to find. Then I remembered it's for a youngster. Got my threads mixed up. Awesome picture @f16jack.

Thanks. She was very proud of that elk.

 

[HappyHuntr]

Thanks. She was very proud of that elk.

Your quiet welcome.

 

[f16jack]

Thanks. She was very proud of that elk.

Here are some more of her with her 7mm-08. Real smiles under the smilies.

 

[MattB]

I think folks way underestimate the effect recoil has on shooting skill for kids (and adults).

My 75# 12yo daughter shoots a 223 and a 6arc really well, better than most adult hunters. I really think it’s because they very little recoil and she hasn’t developed bad habits or flinching,etc.

won’t let her shoot a 243 or larger yet. Taking into consideration body weight, starting a small kid out on a 243 is like starting a new adult out on a 338 win mag.

Recoil is primarily a function of bullet weight and velocity, not caliber. If you reload it is pretty easy to duplicate standard .223 recoil in a .243 by using a lighter bullet and loading it down velocity-wise (there are plenty of low-recoil loads with H4895 available in the internet). I started my daughter with a .243 with a 71 gr. bullet at ~2,750 fps. Very mild in the recoil department. She killed a pig just fine with it.

I raise this for folks who may be thinking about buying a rifle in a lighter recoiling caliber to start with and then buying another larger caliber rifle in the future.

 

[Camo out]

Recoil is primarily a function of bullet weight and velocity, not caliber. If you reload it is pretty easy to duplicate standard .223 recoil in a .243 by using a lighter bullet and loading it down velocity-wise (there are plenty of low-recoil loads with H4895 available in the internet). I started my daughter with a .243 with a 71 gr. bullet at ~2,750 fps. Very mild in the recoil department. She killed a pig just fine with it.

I raise this for folks who may be thinking about buying a rifle in a lighter recoiling caliber to start with and then buying another larger caliber rifle in the future. i have just seen to many cases where they dont reload or didnt have time to reload and buy a box off the shelf

if you reload you can do alot of things, But if you dont reload get a 223,22-250, 6MM arc so you can buy ammo in nearly any town if your in a pinch and need some to hunt.

 

[WD3]

My 9yr old daughter has a few guns. She is small. I have trouble getting a gun with a short enough LOP. I had to go with adjustable stocks as the factory compact stocks are still to big.

Wilson Combat 300 HAM’R

CVA Scout V2 350 Legend with buffer tube adapter and adjustable stock.

Last month rebarreled a 7mm-08 to 6 Dasher for her. Manners MCS-CS stock.

R700P .223 with Manners MCS-CS stock.

All guns are shot suppressed.

I noticed that 300 ham’r is on your list. I have 3 uppers. With an 18” barrel and a can, recoil is super manageable. Good knockdown with 130gr+