Buying a new muzzleloader

[dirtytough]

Hi all. I drew a muzzy deer tag for Colorado this year. Wasn't really expecting to draw it so I didn't do much research on the weapon part. I shot my first deer with a muzzleloader when I was 9, and hunted a few more years with it. But since then I have only archery and rifle hunted. I read Robby's 4 part series, and went back another 10 pages or so on here reading different threads. I'm envisioning a backpack hunt at this point. The pack I use is the rambler which has a gun scabbard. The barrel will be facing down if that matters at all.

I'm looking at the Knight Mountaineer and the Knight Ultra-lite. I like Robby's idea of the 45 cal. with less recoil since I would probably get my wife and boy shooting it also. I like the Ultra-lite since I will be backpacking and saving a few pounds. Since the Mountaineer is the only one that comes in 45 cal. I'm kinda torn on which one to get.

Right now I'm leaning towards the Mountaineer with the bare 209. I will add a peep sight also.

Anyone have any reasons why I should get one model over another? And if I go with the Mountaineer should I get the fast twist or the slower twist?

Thanks for any pointers and suggestions.

Regards, Branden

 

[duckhunter175]

Colorado is an 'iron sight only' state for muzzleloaders correct? At iron sight distances I don't see any advantage for a .45 over a .50. I would get a rifle that is Colorado compliant and you can use BH209 powder. I've had great luck with CVA Accura offerings in the V2 and the MR versions.

I'm partial to the .50cal simply because of the wide array of bullets and sabots available to find the best possible load for your rifle. Front stuffers are finicky when it comes to bullet combos and there aren't near the offerings in .45 as for .50. Plus if you wanted to use it for elk at a later time I believe most states require a .50 cal as the minimum for black powder.

 

[robie]

Would you ever want to hunt elk with it?

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[dirtytough]

Yea I would possibly hunt muzzy elk. But I could always get a 50 cal for that. Also if I got an elk tag in a state a scope was allowed I would possibly want a longer barrel then the Ultra-lite has since I would want to max out velocity so I could have better energy at further distances. I haven't done the calculations, so maybe the 3" of barrel wouldn't make a difference?

I do agree there are way more projectile options for a 50 cal. But I also remember shooting the 50 cal hawkins when I was a 8 years old and it having a pretty stout kick to it.

I appreciate the responses so far.

 

[muddydogs]

Just load the .50 down for the wife and kid, theirs nothing saying one has to run 120 grains of power down the tube all the time. A 50 with 60 or so grains of powder shoots real nice.

 

[robie]

Yea I would possibly hunt muzzy elk. But I could always get a 50 cal for that. Also if I got an elk tag in a state a scope was allowed I would possibly want a longer barrel then the Ultra-lite has since I would want to max out velocity so I could have better energy at further distances. I haven't done the calculations, so maybe the 3" of barrel wouldn't make a difference?

I do agree there are way more projectile options for a 50 cal. But I also remember shooting the 50 cal hawkins when I was a 8 years old and it having a pretty stout kick to it.

I appreciate the responses so far.

The kick will be more dependent on how much powder you add to it more so than the caliber you are running. You can't go wrong with either one of those especially if you are ok buying another gun when you get an elk tag. I wanted 1 do it all gun and went with the ultra-lite.

Here is my thread on what I purchased and some targets showing how accurate it can be. LINK

 

[duckhunter175]

I'd second the choice to just lighten your load down for the wife and kiddo.

Here is a link for a great article on open sights which Id recommend regardless of what rifle you choose-- Increased accuracy from an open sight muzzleloader | goHUNT

All that said, I'll stand by my choice for a CVA -- the accura series has several choices for barrel lengths and it is the best bang for the buck by far!

 

[sabotloader]

Just my opinion but it is really hard to beat a Ultra Lite...

This is my version of the Western Ultra-Lite

NECG mounting on Warne Bases

And a aftermarket Williams front sight

And they are accurate... I bore sighted mine headed to farm and shot this Target - first shots out of a brand new barrel

 

[CAhunter]

Just my opinion but it is really hard to beat a Ultra Lite...

This is my version of the Western Ultra-Lite

NECG mounting on Warne Bases

And a aftermarket Williams front sight

And they are accurate... I bore sighted mine headed to farm and shot this Target - first shots out of a brand new barrel

Sabotloader,
I apologize if you have gone over this before but how did you figure out what front sight/hood to order for the Ultralight? Williams website isn’t very user friendly in my limited experience.

 

[Clarktar]

Sabotloader,
I apologize if you have gone over this before but how did you figure out what front sight/hood to order for the Ultralight? Williams website isn’t very user friendly in my limited experience.

Just got done ordering this stuff for my ultralite

Williams Streamlined Hoodless Screw-On Ramp Steel Blue

Product #: 407183Williams #: 1690

Williams Ramp Hood Only Steel Blue

Product #: 156338Williams #: 1710

Williams Fire Sight Rifle Bead Fiber Optic Red

Product #: 698783Williams #: 56435



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[CAhunter]

Clarktar,
Thank you for the quick response and supplying all of the part numbers. I appreciate it.
Brian

 

[CAhunter]

Clarktar,
Have you shot with this front sight/bead yet? I haven’t yet but just bore sighting it it seems like the front sight may be too short?

 

[Clarktar]

I have. I use it on a MK 95 from knight. I have had no problem sighting it in and shooting. I just adjust the rear peep and am good to go. I have it sighted in at 100.00 but plan to work that out to 150 this summer.

I am also having my Ultra Lite drilled and tapped right now to install the same front and rear site.

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[sabotloader]

Williams does have a formula for computing, but I call Williams support and they told me the supplied a .0.375N for the Knights when they were the supplier.


I order the .375 and it was way to tall so I went with the .312N - It worked but it really was a little short in the hood. From then on I have been using the 0.0343N works very well

Brownells

NECG Peep

NECG RIFLE WEAVER REAR SIGHT | Brownells

Warne Bases W826/826B

947-000-166WB
Maxima 2-Piece Base Knight Disc Matte
Mfr Part: M826826M

Front Ramp
962-020-097WB
Streamlined Ramp 3/16" 1.625 Hole Spacing Screw-on
Mfr Part: 1690

Williams front fire Sight
962-564-350WB
Red Fire Sight fits .343N
Mfr Part: 56434

Fire sight Hood
962-000-016WB
Fire Sight Hood
Mfr Part: 70031

 

[CAhunter]

Thank you for the responses.
Brian

 

[CAhunter]

Because I mounted the Williams WGRS legend rear peep straight to the receiver does that make a difference in the height of the front sight I would need?

 

[sabotloader]

Because I mounted the Williams WGRS legend rear peep straight to the receiver does that make a difference in the height of the front sight I would need?

It possibly could because the WRGS has a limited range when adjusting for Elevation. Which number of fire sight do you have in now? But, in any case you are thinking you need to push the muzzle down farther the WRGS will allow you to get.

I bore sight mine at 12/13 yards with Laser bore sighter… at that range the top of the bead should be right under the POA, Then when I go to 25 yards shooting I am normally very close to the POI equaling the POA.

Confirm for me when you bore sight the WRGS is your sight at the top or bottom of the ramp?

 

[CAhunter]

I have the .343N mounted on the streamlined ramp. I have not shot this combination yet this was just me speculating based on me doing a rough bore sight by looking down the bore and then looking through the sights. I don’t have a laser bore sight. I’ll take it out Monday and shoot it and know a lot more by then. It just seems too short.
With the hood, do you just tap it in place on the ramp with a nylon hammer?
Again, I can’t thank you all enough for the help.
Brian

 

[sabotloader]

I have the .343N mounted on the streamlined ramp. I have not shot this combination yet this was just me speculating based on me doing a rough bore sight by looking down the bore and then looking through the sights. I don’t have a laser bore sight. I’ll take it out Monday and shoot it and know a lot more by then. It just seems too short.

Shooting at 25 yards should tell you a lot... If you can get it sighted a 25 where POA and POI are in synch you should be good to near 200.

With the hood, do you just tap it in place on the ramp with a nylon hammer?
Again, I can’t thank you all enough for the help.
Brian

Yes - exactly for now. Tap it until the hood seats itself. Later when you are sure you have the front sight you want in the position you want - I would suggest you might use some red lok-tite in the groove to hold the hood in place while hunting. It is not real difficult for brush to pull the hood off the ramp.

If you need a .375N let me know I think I have a couple of them that I will not use. "I think"


One of the things I do is center the rear sight at left/right zero and move the front site left/right to get it as close to centered as I can. just a thought!

 

[CAhunter]

Sounds good, thanks again