Buy Once Cry Once?

[TheGDog]

Ugh... I want to see if I can be a candidate for lasik or prk... but damn man... not gonna lie... knowing how my luck usually works... the thought of going under a laser... and it's your eye.. freaks me the bleep out. Do the docs have anything they tell you or show you that helps to ease your fears about any kind of accident occurring as they attempt the procedure?

P.S. if it's any consolation re: lower tier glass, the Vortex DiamondBack's I recently got back under warranty replacement are surprisingly nice! Definitely improved over the previous one from just a few years prior. I figure most would be very happy with a pair. For big game they should be just fine. But if you were trying to pick out a Ground Squirrel, holding still, on a branch within a Scrub Oak... at significant distance... I'm thinking it's then that the little bit of extra clarity, etc. Kinda let's itself be known.

 

[OXN939]

My total investment in optics currently consists of a crossfire rifle scope and a pair of viper 8x42 binos.

In my scope research on this forum (and others), I continually run into a particular mantra: "Buy once, cry once", and the often accompanying "Just save up a few more pennies", when someone is getting talked up from a $500 piece of equipment to a $2000 piece of equipment. In all honestly, this is really frustrating for somebody getting into the sport and it doesn't seem all that real world practical.

In to ruffle some feathers here. Those binos will do just fine for you for years to come. Suggesting that you need to spend $500 to $100 to get into pair of "mid range optics" is laughable. I did six years active duty and spent a lot of time with about the nicest glass out there, and I can honestly tell little to no difference between the Swarovskis I've looked through and a pair of Vipers. The number of situations where the difference between the two would change the outcome of a hunt is small at most.

Much more important than that is upgrading your riflescope. I truly wouldn't even look at getting a spotter until you have some decent glass on your rifle. This always draws a lot of ire, but you have to think about it pragmatically. If your spotter fails, the worst thing that happens is you can't see as far and use your binos. If your binos fail, you have to share with your hunting buddy. If your riflescope fails, all the months of preparation and money you've spent have a very good chance of being wasted by either wounding and missing an animal. None of the other optics you carry impacts how you physically interact with an animal you kill.

To reiterate my original point, there are plenty of solid, dependable riflescopes out there for under $400.

 

[Yakoun]

These are exceptionally good points. As for the Lasik, THIS seems like the only "no-brainer" in the hunting optics world. Once the plague has passed over us, Lasik is going on the docket.

As for the responses to the original question about the necessity of high end spotting scopes, etc. I've learned the following:

1. High end optics are an absolute necessity, and are also completely unnecessary.
2. Binoculars should take priority over spotting scopes and also spotting scopes should take priority over binoculars.
3. High end optics could just transport you to another plane of consciousness.

Of course this is in jest - it again goes to show you that there are so many ways to get set up optically, depending on personal preference, experience, terrain, financial means and specific situations. Every response provides valuable perspective and a piece of the puzzle.

Since posting and after reviewing the responses, I bought a range membership, a used light-ish weight tripod and binocular adapter (brands deliberately withheld to protect the guilty). I also read an AWESOME article by Jim Carr about hunting capabilities https://www.rokslide.com/what-it-takes-to-be-a-successful-hunter/ and realized that I have bigger issues that can't be bought away with a better optic.

So, Here's what I'm going to do this off season:

• Forget about buying any glass for now
• Walk up a hill and learn how to use my current lambda glass with the tripod and see if I can figure out what may be missing optically, if anything, for the areas I hope to hunt now that so many options have been laid out
• Get into better hunting specific shape - with advice from this site and its contributors
• Go to the range and learn to shoot more accurately under as real life shooting conditions as range rules allow
• Engage in off season hunting opportunities - predators and sheds
• Learn more about mule deer behaviours and hunting strategies - with help from this site and it's contributors
• Learn how to react to common problems that come up during a hunt - adverse weather, excess hunting pressure, changes in migration timing, etc. - with help from this site and it's contributors
• Learn how to e-Scout
• Later in the year, spend time scouting to identify potential hunting areas and to start developing a "game eye"

A bit anti-climactic I know - no new scope or binos to show - but amazing viewpoints on the topic nonetheless. THANKS again to all of you for taking the time to provide your insight!

 

[fwafwow]

These are exceptionally good points. As for the Lasik, THIS seems like the only "no-brainer" in the hunting optics world. Once the plague has passed over us, Lasik is going on the docket.

You have received great advice and see there are multiple views on the glass, so I will weigh in with a view on Lasik. To draw an analogy to the post by @OXN939, if at some point something goes wrong with your eyes, what do you do? I'm not an MD, but I've had eye issues for a very long time. After having had to consider that rhetorical question about something going wrong, it got my attention every time I researched the procedure. I know of no medical procedure without risk, and for me, I'd rather play it safe on my vision. Plus, I can spend the money I "saved" on some other gear!

 

[Cole]

Like so many others, I've been researching mid-range backpacking spotters. I'm new to spotters, and really hunting in general and pitifully low on real world info - which is why I joined this group!

I'm interested in walking a few miles into the high country in my area and giving "real" glassing for Mule Deer the ol' college try to see if I like it. Most of my friends don't hunt and those who do prefer to road hunt. My total investment in optics currently consists of a crossfire rifle scope and a pair of viper 8x42 binos.

In my scope research on this forum (and others), I continually run into a particular mantra: "Buy once, cry once", and the often accompanying "Just save up a few more pennies", when someone is getting talked up from a $500 piece of equipment to a $2000 piece of equipment. In all honestly, this is really frustrating for somebody getting into the sport and it doesn't seem all that real world practical.

So I have a question for the "buy once, cry once" crowd... All due respect intended - I know that you're in this position via a ton of experience! What does one do while they're saving up those pennies to buy the spotter/tripod combos that cost multiple thousands of dollars? Just stay home? Road hunt? Buy super low end while saving?

In your opinion, is there NO place for a starter scope of passable quality? Swarovski or a coke bottle - nothing in between?

Get what you can afford. Yes the big three spotting scopes are better but a mid level scope is better than no scope. With that said, I think getting a quality pair of binos should be a priority before getting a spotter.

 

[mxgust]

Ugh... I want to see if I can be a candidate for lasik or prk... but damn man... not gonna lie... knowing how my luck usually works... the thought of going under a laser... and it's your eye.. freaks me the bleep out. Do the docs have anything they tell you or show you that helps to ease your fears about any kind of accident occurring as they attempt the procedure?

P.S. if it's any consolation re: lower tier glass, the Vortex DiamondBack's I recently got back under warranty replacement are surprisingly nice! Definitely improved over the previous one from just a few years prior. I figure most would be very happy with a pair. For big game they should be just fine. But if you were trying to pick out a Ground Squirrel, holding still, on a branch within a Scrub Oak... at significant distance... I'm thinking it's then that the little bit of extra clarity, etc. Kinda let's itself be known.

Little derail from the OPs question but I’m an optometrist and very regularly manage patients pre and post op LASIK. If you have some specific questions shoot me PM. There are a few things to know going into the procedure but complications are not common and the modern lasers are actually unable to go off course. They have shut offs that move much faster than any movement. That type of accident isn’t possible anymore

 

[fwafwow]

Ugh... I want to see if I can be a candidate for lasik or prk... but damn man... not gonna lie... knowing how my luck usually works... the thought of going under a laser... and it's your eye.. freaks me the bleep out. Do the docs have anything they tell you or show you that helps to ease your fears about any kind of accident occurring as they attempt the procedure?

95% satisfaction rate!
https://www.aao.org/eye-health/treatments/facts-about-lasik-complications

 

[mxgust]

95% satisfaction rate!
https://www.aao.org/eye-health/treatments/facts-about-lasik-complications

Yea it’s generally very high. People are usually very happy. Most common complication is a power miss where you still need glasses or they need to do a touch up with a second procedure. Can also cause dryness and glare. That stuff is all pretty common, serious complications are not. Overall complication rate is about 2-3% and the majority of that is power miss. Most of that also just comes from how your eye heals, not from a mistake

 

[fwafwow]

Yea it’s generally very high. People are usually very happy. Most common complication is a power miss where you still need glasses or they need to do a touch up with a second procedure. Can also cause dryness and glare. That stuff is all pretty common, serious complications are not. Overall complication rate is about 2-3% and the majority of that is power miss. Most of that also just comes from how your eye heals, not from a mistake

I was being a bit tongue in cheek - sorry. I guess it all depends on your point of view, but personally a 5% chance I'm not happy or to be one of the "small number" of patients described in that link was too high for me. I'd love to get more detail from that site, including the linked meta analysis article of FDA reports. (Another apology - I'm in the middle of some documentaries and books on how clinical trials and publications can be problematic for a variety of reasons, so perhaps I'm going overboard - and clearly a huge but unintended hijack of the OP.....)

 

[Where's Bruce?]

Low end glass gives me a headache but aspirin is cheap. What distances are you glassing? For how long? How many days a year? It may be you only need a decent pair of 15X56 swaro binos for your area. Without a firm understanding of your needs, any recommendation is BS. I have all kinds of spotters and binos as I got better and better optics over the years. I feel your pain.

 

[TheGDog]

I'd be willing to bet that most would be more than happy with a set of 15's. (EDIT: for longer range concerns) Especially if you're an eyeglass wearer. And especially if your terrain type disallows the ability for you to traverse the amount of distance you can see across in a single day. Because like if the space in-between is like some ungodly amount of descent followed by ascent on top of the distance in-between... then it's more like you're seeing possible game for either the next day or... for a return trip where you instead focus your initial entry to get you more over there to begin with.

At any rate great to hear the OP got a Tripod! Let the magic begin!

 

[longbarrel]

Lots of good info above. I bought 10x42 Leicas in 1993 so I could see a white mountain goat next to a white rock in white snow. Bought a pair of Ultravids from Doug recently on a clearance sale, spending between 1-2K but well below the usual price (deals do show up, especially when the mfg. is coming out with a new, very slightly better, model). Right now,, Leupold VX3i are on sale because they are going to introduce a new HD model.
What might you do with a small budget? I would reach for my BX4 Leupolds and a rifle with a VX3i scope on it and not be afraid to hunt.

A few generalities in my experience:
1. a good spotting scope can help you figure out if anything is in the same zip code, when you are not finding them with binos.
2. good binos are very helpful.
3. a decent scope is important, and can help you make sure the one you chose is the one you shoot, if there are several of them out there.

 

[gcronin]

Like so many others, I've been researching mid-range backpacking spotters. I'm new to spotters, and really hunting in general and pitifully low on real world info - which is why I joined this group!

I'm interested in walking a few miles into the high country in my area and giving "real" glassing for Mule Deer the ol' college try to see if I like it. Most of my friends don't hunt and those who do prefer to road hunt. My total investment in optics currently consists of a crossfire rifle scope and a pair of viper 8x42 binos.

In my scope research on this forum (and others), I continually run into a particular mantra: "Buy once, cry once", and the often accompanying "Just save up a few more pennies", when someone is getting talked up from a $500 piece of equipment to a $2000 piece of equipment. In all honestly, this is really frustrating for somebody getting into the sport and it doesn't seem all that real world practical.

So I have a question for the "buy once, cry once" crowd... All due respect intended - I know that you're in this position via a ton of experience! What does one do while they're saving up those pennies to buy the spotter/tripod combos that cost multiple thousands of dollars? Just stay home? Road hunt? Buy super low end while saving?

In your opinion, is there NO place for a starter scope of passable quality? Swarovski or a coke bottle - nothing in between?

That's a great question! My advice when purchasing optics is to figure out what your price point is. Then, get the best optical system you can that falls into that price point while meeting the other features needed for your application. This is what you'll be the happiest with as it will give you the best performance.

While the "Buy once, cry once" method is great, if it means saving up for years it really doesn't make sense. Finding a number that you are comfortable spending on a piece of glass and getting the best system you can is what I would recommend.

If you have any questions, please let me know!

 

[Deadfall]

Been at this game since birth. Never owned "top tier" glass. Nothing against it to each their own. Like has been said earlier a good mid range bino on a tripod will do everything you need to do.

Personally I run leupold optics. I feel they are best bang. I did get caught up in the vortex fad a few years ago. I dont care for vortex. I know lots of guys swear by em.

This year marked 15 years of professionally guiding big game hunts on public land. When hunting public land, glass and patience is the difference between 10 percent and 95 percent success. Especially during rifle season when bulls aren't moving a bunch.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

 

[Deadfall]

Also, I would not own a pair of binos less then 10x50. Also wouldn't own a spotter with less then 80mm lens.
The light difference is important when trying to pick out a ear or horn tip. Sure there's plenty who disagree, but thats my experience and preferene

 

[BigSky]

Buy once, cry once; however, you may need to do it multiple times. I know many, many years ago when I started. As a young man with young kids in the early 90s, a $250 spotter was an awful lot of money. That was a buy once cry once situation. As my situation changed and my income increased, a $750 spotter was a buy once, cry once scenario. On and on we go.

Neither I, nor anybody else, has any business telling someone else what their "needs" are. However, be honest with yourself about your financial situation and what your true needs vs. wants are. There are many people who come to forums like this for advice and end up being convinced they "need" to spend more money for things when what they have will not only suffice, but probably excel.

Determine what your own needs truly are vs what your wants are. If you can afford them, things that are "nice to have" are, well, just that, nice to have.

 

[Lionhound1975]

One thing to remember is that the term "alpha glass" changes. There is glass out there around $1000 that is as good as than anything Swarovski or Zeiss produced 15 years ago.

As far as saving up for years vs rolling with what you can afford at the time, I think it is the same argument as seen on other threads about waiting 10 years and collecting points to hunt limited zones vs just hunting OTC tags every year. The answer is obvious as to which option will give you more hunting experience and make you a better hunter.

The whole point we use optics is to find and observe game, so the optics, whatever they are, are just a vehicle towards a goal, they are not the end goal themselves. Learning how to use that $600 bino is far more important that not using anything for years and then buying the Holy Grail of optics and expecting to suddenly find all types of game with it.

 

[schwaf]

I don't have much of an opinion on optics. I bought mid tier glass and am fine with being blissfully unaware of what I'm missing... for now. However, I did get LASIK about 10 years ago, and I wake up every single day thankful that I did it. It's the best $2000 I've EVER invested. Being dependent on glasses or contacts to see is truly a handicap that I hope to never experience again. Too many times I've found myself in dicey situations not being able to see. If you have poor eyesight, forget optics. Buy good eyes.

 

[stevers75]

I don't have much of an opinion on optics. I bought mid tier glass and am fine with being blissfully unaware of what I'm missing... for now. However, I did get LASIK about 10 years ago, and I wake up every single day thankful that I did it. It's the best $2000 I've EVER invested. Being dependent on glasses or contacts to see is truly a handicap that I hope to never experience again. Too many times I've found myself in dicey situations not being able to see. If you have poor eyesight, forget optics. Buy good eyes.

I finally got LASIK this past year, best investment i've made thus far in life!

 

[Ron.C]

There is nothing wrong with purchasing top of the line glass if you have the means. But I agree with Lionhound1975, learning to use your optics and being patient is everything. Top quality glass in iteslf won't put more game on the ground. Can't recall the amount of times spring bear hunting when I've watched a cutblock and picked apart the same dark stump only to see it get up and move. Or watch a partner jump up and try to put on a stalk on a big bear to find out it was a sow with a cub in close.

I know one guy who has top of the line Swaro spotter, but can't sit for more than an 1/2 hour before he needs to move to a new location.

I went through my spotter search a few year back. Had been using a cheap Vortex nomad. Worked well enough for Vancouver Island spot/stalk black bear and ok on a goat hunt. "we were able to judge a billy with this scope at about 1000m. "

I eventually found and bought an old model vortex razor 65mm. For my hunting, I can do everything I need with this scope. I had the money to purchase a Swaro, but after testing the Razor I couldn't justify the increased cost.

Another thing to keep in mind especially when viewing objects at long range is your tripod. Don't cheap out here especially if you are using it for long range spotting.