Business of trophy hunting and fair chase

[mlgc20]

Even if I had the money, I don't think that's what I would do. But, it's his money. So, who am I to judge. The only thing I really care about is that hunters use the meat. I'm not down with just shooting animals for the sake of killing. I have my own preferences. I don't want to hunt whitetail on a high fence. I don't want to have a bunch of dogs tree an animal for me to shoot. I don't even like boiling lobsters alive. But, if you're into those things. That's OK too.

 

[wildwilderness]

Probably not popular with some, including my Outfitter friends, but personally I would prefer that all guiding/outfitting be banned on public land! Hard to draw a line with transporters, packers, or even the whole ecotourism deal, but would at least keep hunting for the common folk and avoid the trend towards elitism.

 

[trophyhill]

pretty indicative of governor's tags i think. they find these animals in late spring and shodow their every move. if i got a governors tag and had that long to hunt, it would be a DIY hunt with my buddy's.

 

[fmyth]

I think he paid 240k plus tax for the tag. That's almost 2,000 times more than I paid for my 2020 AZ elk tag.

 

[fmyth]

pretty indicative of governor's tags i think. they find these animals in late spring and shodow their every move. if i got a governors tag and had that long to hunt, it would be a DIY hunt with my buddy's.

I have a WY commissioners tag and that is exactly what I am going to do. I'll be happy with a once in a lifetime experience with a couple friends and will be proud of whatever legal elk I shoot.

 

[CAElkhunter]

My guides in NM last year were more busy comparing the pictures of the Bulls they saw during Archery that they could send to the Gov Tag holder than they were in spotting for the opening day of Rifle season......

They told me the deal in NM is if you find a bull and send the pic to the Gov tag holder and he decides to hunt that bull and kills him they will get up to $ 15K. That is big business for them. It kind of disgusted me. Especially when I hiked 70 miles and they could never find a bull that was even close to 300.

 

[Gerbdog]

My guides in NM last year were more busy comparing the pictures of the Bulls they saw during Archery that they could send to the Gov Tag holder than they were in spotting for the opening day of Rifle season......

They told me the deal in NM is if you find a bull and send the pic to the Gov tag holder and he decides to hunt that bull and kills him they will get up to $ 15K. That is big business for them. It kind of disgusted me. Especially when I hiked 70 miles and they could never find a bull that was even close to 300.

I guess you shoulda offered 15k for them to put you on that bull they were sharing around Pretty rough though, I know I woulda been pretty displeased with that.

 

[Middleofnowhere]

I appreciate anyone that kicks in the big $$ for those fundraising tags. Most state agencies use the money raised from those tags to benefit conservation.

 

[AGPank]

Great input from everyone. I’m not familiar with AZ regulations on electronic communication and I don’t know anyone involved and assume all was compliant.

I guess even record book bulls (Winters - 1969, Plute -1899) we don’t know what really happened in terms of fair chase. I didn’t realize some of the top bulls were finds too.

I can’t even imagine $20k for an elk hunt let alone $240k. I’m sure the lower end will get you an opportunity at a trophy on several of the reservations.


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[*zap*]

Some people are only 'result' driven both in what they do and how they think about what other people do.
Some other people are driven by circumstances not only results.

Personally, I am happy for anyone who is happy with their result as long as it was legally attained but I have more respect for achievement's that are the result of public land hunts that anyone could have gone on for just the cost of the tags/licenses.

 

[PowellSixO]

240k spent on the tag, plus 100k more on guide fees and buying information from people state wide. Good for him. It will look good next to all the other animals he had to pay to shoot.

 

[TheCougar]

Id be more impressed with a guy shooting a 280" bull in an OTC area.

This. Fair chase, sure. Amazing bull, absolutely. But when that guy looks at the rack in his trophy room, he won’t remember the adventure or pain or effort that went into it, or have any great stories to tell from the hunt. He will just say, “here’s my 470 Arizona bull!” I’ll stick with my regular sized bulls that I got through effort, and all the memories that go with the adventure.

 

[wind gypsy]

Mixed emotions.

The video Ryan Carter posted made it clear that Jimmy John was very aware that it wasn't really his accomplishment. If you look at what the guy has spent on governors tags (MT bighorn x4) there is a lot of money going to the resource from his pocket.

This whole culture of posse hunting that exists in AZ/NM/UT/NV irks me. I had to ask myself why.. I'd love to have a bunch of buddies helping me find game. I think it's just a bad look for hunting in general when there are 10 dudes and huge $ dedicated soley to finding the animal with the most bone on its head to kill. That and it has potential to diminish the experience of your regular joe hunters.

I've gone on one guided hunt (dall sheep) and while it was a great experience, it was less rewarding than most of my general tag bull elk harvests. Can't help feeling like I bought it. Damned if that ram isn't the first thing i'd grab out of my house if it was burning though!

 

[fmyth]

It's a great time to be alive and living in the United States of America. Where else can a guy start a business making sandwiches and become a BILLIONAIRE? It's not like he developed the Corona Virus vaccine. Hell he didn't even invent the sandwich. A billion or two will buy a bunch of hunts. I am glad he chose to drop a few hundred K in my State. It would suck if rich people didn't put their money back into circulation. That old bull has been around a while and anyone lucky enough to draw an AZ tag has a chance to shoot a monster DIY. Or, they can spend 37 years building a billion dollar business and skip straight to the front of the line like Jimmy.

 

[trevvamos]

This guy prob made a couple million in franchise fees alone while he was on the hunt. He’s got a lot of hate from antis. Even if it’s not your style of hunt, we should be happy to have a guy like this putting dollars into conservation.

 

[sneaky]

I saw some pictures on Instagram of an amazing bull taken in AZ. It’s not clear if it’s rifle or archery, but a video shows nine men, the hunter, and another taking the video.

There’s talk of this team monitoring the bull for some time to put the hunter on the bull. I assume a mix of trail cams and scouting.

The hunter likely paid a substantial guide / trophy fee.

I’m curious about others opinions if at what point is something like this no longer fair chase.


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That was a governor's tag. That might not be your idea of fair chase, but that hunter made a substantial donation to conservation by purchasing that tag. Not everyone's cup of tea, but, that's how about 99% of limited entry tags will be hunted in Utah as well.

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[Riflehuntr19]

To me it’s not fair chase. Odds are stacked almost completely against the bull and the hunter has no role besides pulling the trigger.

 

[Life_Feeds_On_Life]

This whole culture of posse hunting that exists in AZ/NM/UT/NV irks me. I had to ask myself why..

I will just say being from AZ most of us don't hunt with quite the posse that the guides do but for me a lot of it has to do with the fact that good tags take a bit to come by so it's fun to get out and be part of the hunt with buddies who were lucky enough to draw.

As far as the guides and their posse, which I do agree is off-putting, I'm not sure why it's a thing. I guess they just want to keep tabs on the big guys.

 

[CAElkhunter]

I don't think anyone here is saying he shouldn't do it. The money goes to a good cause. Most people are just saying that type of hunt is not for them.

I have nothing against someone buying Gov Tags. They money does go to the state conservation.

 

[Coveyleader]

No different than any of these "once and a lifetime tags" we all draw and the tag holder shows up with 10 of his best friends, cameras all over the place etc.