Bushing or FL Resizing Die? Help a Newb

[SDHNTR]

The expander obviously expands on the out stroke on the sac, it does so right as the brass leaves the bushing. I think the beauty in it lies in how adjustable you can be with bushing mandrel combinations to not cause the problems, atleast Iv had in traditional FL dies. My bushing sizes down .004 under loaded diameter (before spring back) and I use a .002 under mandrel to give me neck tension around .003 when all said and done. Making it so the expander is doing very little work. In other fl dies I had some problems with it pulling the shoulder out, I havnt had that with the sac die. All I know is it makes better brass than any other die Iv used. When I got the dies I didn’t have the expanders, I couldn’t tell a difference when swapping from only decapping to the expander. Also bonus is the slickness of the die, and that it sizes nearly like a small base die.

I actually plan to buy another creedmoor die eventually so I don’t have to monkey with swapping stuff around, but a bonus is I can load 22,6 and 6.5 on the one die.

As far as better than a honed fl die with an expander you can adjust, I’m not sure there would be much of a difference. I went this way to be a little adjustable, and streamline things as much as possible. One pull of the press is all my brass sees now, and I don’t plan on going back.

@SDHNTR
Iv not seen doughnuts be a problem till around 5 loadings. At that point they were obvious with a naked eye. Happened with both junk brass and premium. I’m also annealing after each firing. A tapered bushing, can help fix the problem partly. I personally will avoid a traditional bushing die if at all possible at this point, and am confident enough in my load process thay if needed I’ll just order a honed FL sizing die an add a mandrel step to my process.

Iv also got some lee collet dies. But that’s going backwards in my goal to make the best brass with the least messing around in the loading room.

I’m at 6 firings and resizings on ADG and 7 firings and resizings on some Lapua. No annealing, no donuts. Lucky? I use a nitride bushing sizing down the neck only enough so that the expander (floating carbide) is barely felt on the way back out. I’m getting less than .002” runout and easy groups. I like cool new stuff too and understand the theoretical improvement, I just have no real reason to change.

 

[SloppyJ]

Been reloading since the '80's so I've tried most of them. Opinions obviously vary on this subject. For the past 10 years or so I used rifle specific brass, and don't even switch it around between my Tiikka T3x and CTR in 6.5CM. All brass is rifle specific, period. I use a simple Lee collet neck sizing die every time until the brass chambers very snugly. At that point I will use a Redding body die to bump back the shoulders .002 as several mentioned here. I also anneal my brass every 3 firings or so just because I'm anal about stuff like that. My "system" produces very accurate ammo and has for years. No matter what anyone says, FL sizing, and shoulder bumping for that matter, works your brass way more than a simple neck sizing die. Unlike the bushing neck sizing dies, the Lee collet die doesn't need lube to do it's job, and it sizes the whole neck, not just part of it.

Thanks for the response. This is exactly the route I'm using with my 30-06 and it's been working very well. Although I did find some tiny brass shards(?) In my action last time. Either way this is the route I would like to go because honestly the lee dies have treated me well in 300blk, 6.5CM, and 30-06. However lee doesn't have a collet die that I've seen for 280ai.

I just found a deal on a 3 die redding premium deluxe set along with a bunch of brass so I took it. It comes with their neck sizing die although I'm not too sure on how theirs works but I'm going to use the same process I believe.

 

[wapitibob]

If the redding 3 die set is their competition die set, you use the "body die" to size the body and bump the shoulder, use the neck die with bushing to size just the neck (I step down from fired neck dia to .003 neck tension, no mandrel or expander), then use the micro seater to set your bullet. I have a belted case so I use the willis die ahead of the belt and it does almost all of the body sizing. The redding body die is pretty much just a shoulder bump die at this point.

 

[Lawnboi]

I’m at 6 firings and resizings on ADG and 7 firings and resizings on some Lapua. No annealing, no donuts. Lucky? I use a nitride bushing sizing down the neck only enough so that the expander (floating carbide) is barely felt on the way back out. I’m getting less than .002” runout and easy groups. I like cool new stuff too and understand the theoretical improvement, I just have no real reason to change.

I’m at 6 firings and resizings on ADG and 7 firings and resizings on some Lapua. No annealing, no donuts. Lucky? I use a nitride bushing sizing down the neck only enough so that the expander (floating carbide) is barely felt on the way back out. I’m getting less than .002” runout and easy groups. I like cool new stuff too and understand the theoretical improvement, I just have no real reason to change.

If it’s working it’s working. Another thing to consider with it is if your bullet is not that far into the case, the boat tail junction might be above that doughnut, making it not matter as much. I could feel it seating bullets deep.

As with a lot of reloading, how much it matters? I don’t know.

 

[SloppyJ]

If the redding 3 die set is their competition die set, you use the "body die" to size the body and bump the shoulder, use the neck die with bushing to size just the neck (I step down from fired neck dia to .003 neck tension, no mandrel or expander), then use the micro seater to set your bullet. I have a belted case so I use the willis die ahead of the belt and it does almost all of the body sizing. The redding body die is pretty much just a shoulder bump die at this point.

It's the premium series deluxe 3 die set with FL resizer, micrometer bullet seating die, and neck sizer.

 

[Wrench]

I just stuffed a 556 into a 204 lee collet die to resize to 20 tac/prac.

This is cheap brass, pushed into the collet die then trimmed to length, deburred and seated (remember this is a .204 bullet) in a 223rem forster benchrest seater. There's maybe 3 tenths of runout.

 

[longrange13]

So I need some guidance. I've been reloading under a year and have successfully gone through load development for exactly one rifle, my 30-06. I have no one that I know that reloads so I don't really have anyone to ask. I've picked up a 280AI and I need to order some dies. There are so many thoughts on this subject and I'm just trying to wrap my head around it. This gun is for hunting and just some light range sessions. I haven't encountered this with my 30-06 yet because I've started with new brass and got lucky with a accubond load off the bat that I dialed in within 30 rounds.

I have a lee turret press and I bought the ultimate 4 die set for that one. It includes a FL resizing die, collet neck sizing die, seating die, and crimp die. I'm trying to figure out the best practice for resizing the body and neck. It seems like FL resizing brass ensures smooth feeding but is hell on your brass. Not to mention the slight bit of efficiency from the case being blown back out to fit the chamber.

My first plan was to just use the collet neck sizing die and experiment with that until things get hard to chamber. At that point I was going to record that dimension and setup my FL sizing die to bump the shoulder 0.002". My head is spinning from all of the options with the bushing dies, body dies, and even the type S dies. Maybe my terminology is off, or even worse my whole way of thinking but when I read about full length resizing, I expect that one die to size the body and the neck in one go. But I'm reading about people using a FL resizer to bump the shoulder back and then using a neck sizing die on top of that. Maybe that's so they can set the neck tension that they are wanting?

Hell, at this point maybe it's just easier to FL resize after every firing. I'm not out there throwing 100s of rounds down range every weekend so my 50 Norma cases should last me a while even if that's the best route to take. I'm also not worried about chasing groups down to thousandths of an inch but I was beyond happy when I was able to dial in my 30-06 to around 0.60" consistently over 3 different range trips. That rifle is what got me into reloading because it is the pickiest gun I've ever owned. Right now I like the Forster set and I'd like to try something with a micrometer on the seating die.

I appreciate any tips in getting me steered in the right direction and I do recognize that it's a very elementary reloading question but so far in my short stint here, everyone has been extremely helpful and drama free. There aren't many boards left like this. Thanks guys!

All the options work, I personally use type s full length bushing dies. Just a full length die with interchangeable bushings. The easiest way tho is just a straight up full length die pushing the shoulder back 2-3 thousandths. While this can be harder on brass, most guys don’t shoot enough to ever have it be an issue. Annealing is ideal but not mandatory. A lot of this stuff has been pushed by prs shooters who need to get 20 firings out of their brass to save money on components. Most guys probably won’t ever reload a set of rifle brass more than 4 times. I’m which case just grab a full length die and run it.

I went down the rabbit hole overthinking everything. Spent 1000s upgrading all my reloading gear. In the end the extra you gain doing that is not much. Especially just for hunting. While the top of the line equipment is more user friendly, it cutting hairs as far as actual improvements.

 

[SloppyJ]

All the options work, I personally use type s full length bushing dies. Just a full length die with interchangeable bushings. The easiest way tho is just a straight up full length die pushing the shoulder back 2-3 thousandths. While this can be harder on brass, most guys don’t shoot enough to ever have it be an issue. Annealing is ideal but not mandatory. A lot of this stuff has been pushed by prs shooters who need to get 20 firings out of their brass to save money on components. Most guys probably won’t ever reload a set of rifle brass more than 4 times. I’m which case just grab a full length die and run it.

I went down the rabbit hole overthinking everything. Spent 1000s upgrading all my reloading gear. In the end the extra you gain doing that is not much. Especially just for hunting. While the top of the line equipment is more user friendly, it cutting hairs as far as actual improvements.

I've settled on just doing a standard FL sizing die and bumping the shoulder back 2 to 3 thou and calling it a day. There was so much information out there and I was thoroughly confused when I first got into it. So far that has been working great and I'm working on my 3rd firings on some of my 30-06 stuff. It makes things easier and with two kids running around, it helps save some time too. When my brass wears out ill just start over. Just got a couple supressors cleared and jumped down the rabbit hole of subsonic loads for my .30-30 and .308. I wish I didn't have to tinker with everything!