Bullet minumum velocity for "expansion"

[Erussell01]

Hey guys!
I'm trying to compile a list of all of the bullets commonly used for hunting and their minimum velocities fir expansion.

However, I hit a bit of a snag and had a realization that we aren't all playing with the same information.

For example- this is direct from Barnes and apples to 308 factory ammo only.


308 Win Vor-tx ammo

130 gr TTSX starts to expand at 1800 fps (110% of original diameter) but should have 2000 fps for full expansion.

150 gr TTSX 1600 (110%) but needs 1800 fps for full expansion.

168 gr TTSX, 1500 (110%) but needs 1700 fps for full expansion.

As you can see- they consider 110% to be expansion, but then give a different number for full expansion. In their defense, I appreciate their honest and would use the number for "full" expansion as my minimum, if not a bit more. 110% wouldn't leave me feeling warm and cozy at any distance, let alone on a far shot.

When I search through the forums here I see

ELDMS are listed as 1800 fps in most of Rokslide but I've also seen Form recommend maybe a touch higher for some ELDMs

TMKs I have seen listed as 1800fps or even lower.

Nosler accubonds are listed at 1800fps

Hornady ELDX says 1600, most people say 1800 for better expansion.

TGKs are listed as 2200fps


Fusion tipped are listed at 1800 fps

So I got to thinking..
Is there anybody who has put together a list based on caliber, the minimum expansion velocity listed by the manufacturers and with anectodal evidence provided by the good people of Rokslide so we can compare the bullets we are most commonly wondering about?

I have read the 223 thread, 6.5 thread and pretty much spend far too much on rokslide. But I thought maybe a thread to compile the minimum expansion velocity of common bullets would be a good thing.

Anybody have others to add?

 

[BCsteve]

I got these from Barnes when I asked about the .358 200gr TTSX and 225gr TSX.

"200 TTSX = 2000 fps

225 TSX = 1800 fps

At these impact velocities you should see double diameter expansion. They are starting to expand approximately 200 fps slower but for best performance hit these velocities."

 

[CMcCormick1805]

From a Hornady rep I heard 2000 FPS on the CX in general.

On another note it’s worth listening to more material from Barnes. They made some points about how certain bullets of the same model act differently the one I heard cited was the 160 LRX in 7mm.

 

[Erussell01]

From a Hornady rep I heard 2000 FPS on the CX in general.

On another note it’s worth listening to more material from Barnes. They made some points about how certain bullets of the same model act differently the one I heard cited was the 160 LRX in 7mm.

And they also said they have different velocities for loaded ammunition vs component bullets due to them not knowing what case a person might stuff them into

 

[Finaddictions]

One of the problems in assembling a list like this is every bullet within a family can still have different expansion thresholds. This is illustrated in your Barnes example in the original post. This is just as true for TMK’s, ELD-M’s and all the other bullets regularly talked about here. Each individual caliber and weight bullet can and will have variations in their minimum upset velocity. Even the manufacturers won’t necessarily know the granular data for each bullet as that requires shooting every single bullet through ballistic gel at every velocity until they arrive at the point of no expansion. That’s an overwhelming task. That’s why you almost always see the generalities of required velocities discussed here.

I think we’d all love to know the true number for each bullet and where it expands to, but in reality staying within the general numbers is probably the best we can do. Most cup and core tipped bullets expand down to 1800 fps. But as noted the ELD-M’s can some times take a bit more speed where conversely, the TMK’s will often upset at lower velocities.

For me, I usually stay above 2000 fps for most projectiles except TMK’s. Within that window they all upset reliably.

 

[wind gypsy]

As a generalization - seems in most cases except in the most moderate cartridges the distance to reach min expansion velocity > competent shooter ability. That doesn't stop lots of people from shooting beyond it though.

Common exceptions might be something like a 180 barnes in a 308. That dont make any sense.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Keep in mind Barnes “full” expansion is still minimal and it takes even more velocity to expand out to the product photos they advertise.

An example off the web: