Building a house, is this normal ?

[tony]

I should have stated better. The "verbal" was more like can you give me a rough idea of cost now that you have had the plans to look over? That was the 350 with the extra 50k buffer.
Now that the bank is involved, he texted her with the $520k verbal.
Then he went on to tell to go with just a slab, cheaper cabinets, counters, tiles, etc., etc. I mean she likes to spend money like any female but, she was reasonable on this due to expense.

The cost I am pretty sure included HVAC. But we did get one separate bid for that. I don't know if the HVAC guy was wanting us to see his actual price so there was nothing to hide.

The quote/build price includes septic.

Heres the crazy part, I met with AEP yesterday. There is a ROW on the property with AEP. The engineer gal said above ground power install up to the house would be free, underground would be between 1500 and 2000. So that's the best new so far.

And no, I'm not really thrilled with this idea. The property is nice; you can see forever up where we are. Big deer. The old guy that has the farm surrounding is really nice, might be able to hunt a portion of it.

$400k scares me to death with my plans on finally retiring. $520 is not only impossible but no way in hell I'm signing up for that.

 

[BRTreedogs]

I should have stated better. The "verbal" was more like can you give me a rough idea of cost now that you have had the plans to look over? That was the 350 with the extra 50k buffer.
Now that the bank is involved, he texted her with the $520k verbal.
Then he went on to tell to go with just a slab, cheaper cabinets, counters, tiles, etc., etc. I mean she likes to spend money like and female but, she was reasonable on this due to expense.

The cost I am pretty sure included HVAC. But we did get one separate bid for that. I don't know if the HVAC guy was wanting us to see his actual price so there was nothing to hide.

The quote/build price includes septic.

Heres the crazy part, I met with AEP yesterday. There is a ROW on the property with AEP. The engineer gal said above ground power install up to the house would be free, underground would be between 1500 and 2000. So that's the best new so far.

And no, I'm not really thrilled with this idea. The property is nice; you can see forever up where we are. Big deer. The old guy that has the farm surrounding is really nice, might be able to hunt a portion of it.

$400k scares me to death with my plans on finally retiring. $520 is not only impossible but no way in hell I'm signing up for that.

You 2 don’t have equity that will be coming from where you reside now?

 

[tony]

She paid cash from her condo sale for the land, banked what was left for this build.

Me. I'm bringing my top shelf credit and cash

I've owned one home in my life. My daughter's mom and I co owned it. We split about 10-12 years ago, peaceful split. I let her keep the house and she paid me a little money when she refinanced. I have apartment dwelled since. I lucked into a decent cheap place and have been there for 10 years. I have always been kind of in limbo as to my next move as far as housing. Just banking/investing money for my retirement.

 

[Drenalin]

The laborers here are 225-250 cash a day. The skilled guys are $350 a day.

Yep, $30-35 per hour for laborers to semi-skilled jack-offs, up to $75 per hour for the most skilled finish carpenter I've ever encountered.

Quick answers/questions

House is 2100 SF
What is GM? Is that general manager / general contractor?

Its just me and her. We each have 1 child, both grown and gone.

Both in the medical field, she travels to make good money. Which is one reason I've questioned this build. She will hardly be there.

Property is on a ridge, its flat on the build site, the driveway best I calculated using my truck is a 12% climb.
Future plans are some sort of pole barn, we have a definite need for a small tractor for land maintenance.

The 350.000 was actually 400,000 per the builder for cost over run.

I am 57 and finally trying to retire for the last time soon. I really don't want to be strapped to this kind of money. $500 k and I am out of the plan.

I guess the thing I don't understand is how do you go from $350 to 520 overnight??

We have found similar houses with property for around the same cost. We can do a little work, say "updates"

$247.62 per square foot isn't bad at all for a nice place in 2026, especially for something so small. There's just no economy of scale that would drive that price/sqft down. Is that including sitework and utility connections?

I personaly refuse to give verbal or on-the-spot pricing on anything significant. It's a recipe for somebody to cry foul when they see a real number and then go full throttle butt-hurt on the internet. I don't know how much the third guy looked at it before he gave you a verbal; he could be full of crap, or he could have been surprised at something in the plans. You’ve got two contractors at an identical number…the price is the price. Bitching on a forum won’t change it.

Rant engaged (and not directed at OP):

We are almost to the point of tradesmen actually earning what they’re worth, and as a blue-collar turned white-collar guy, I’m glad for it. People like to imagine that guys in the trades are toothless, dumbass dipshits, but stop and think for three seconds…do you want an actual inbred moron building your place, or someone with a fully-functioning (or close enough) brain building your place, versus someone who would be in adult daycare without that job? If the latter, there are likely a lot of guys who fit your criteria. If the former, then try to comprehend that these guys have families and are making a living too, and they don’t have to live in near impoverished conditions to make your dream a reality.

If the price is too high, then welcome to the real world, where you can’t afford every frickin thing you want. This is not the same economy the boomer generation came up in, and the cost of construction reflects that.

Tariffs are a real issue, and not one that contractors or suppliers should be expected to eat. If the materials can’t be dropped on site within 30 days, expect the price to change. Contractors don’t control that shit and aren’t getting rich off of it.

Outside of some bad actors, contractors in general are not raking in money faster than they can stack it or raping people like some in this thread imply. It’s a supply and demand economy just like everything else…why would I do one job at 6% if I could do another at 12%? The typical residential GC in my area is 15-20% on fee (read: profit) and they’re turning down work just to be able to keep up with what they have. Why in God’s name would they take a job at 6, 8, 10%? Supply and demand, in its purest form.

So, why build now versus waiting for things to level off? Well, we are not even close to replacing skilled tradesmen at the same rate they are retiring or dying. Go ahead and wait to see what things look like in 5, 10, 15 years…I’m legitimately concerned, as a commercial construction project manager, that we won’t be able to perform the work that clients want (and this is compounded by the current admin’s ICE directives). Simply put, it isn’t going to get better. Go ahead and play the game of waiting to see if prices come down…it isn’t going to happen in construction any more than it will in any other industry.

OP, I see your point of not wanting to take on this level of debt in your position in life, and I don’t disagree with it. But this is today’s reality…it will not get better, it will likely get worse. Plan accordingly.

 

[Whitefox82]

About 5 years ago I slowly started crafting my life, paying things off and trying to set myself up not to be the typical American financed to the max.

Was hoping to build a custom barndo.

But between inflation, finding honest people and cost.

I think it may be slipping away.

Sounds like my sheep hunting dreams!

Honestly though, the OP should GC his own home. It’s not so big that it would be that difficult. Get the plans drawn up yourself, many of the larger building suppliers also draw up plans and are a lot less expensive than a professional architect. It will also be that much easier for them to put together your materials quote and put together floor joist and roof truss/rafters layouts since they already have your plan. Most people know of someone in the trades(family/friends) -start there. Ask them for recommendations for other sub contractors. Get quotes from multiple subs. There are a lot of hacks out there. Honestly, the best crews are usually small outfits, 1-3 people. They never advertise because they don’t need to. They typically care more about their craft than just taking on as many jobs as possible. Larger companies will be on the radio/tv but the guy you talk to that sells you their work you’ll never see again, just a dozen illegal immigrants doing sub par work as fast as humanly possible. And you probably won’t be able to communicate with them!!
Good luck, it truly is the Wild West right now in the construction industry!

 

[Drenalin]

Sounds like my sheep hunting dreams!

Honestly though, the OP should GC his own home. It’s not so big that it would be that difficult. Get the plans drawn up yourself, many of the larger building suppliers also draw up plans and are a lot less expensive than a professional architect. It will also be that much easier for them to put together your materials quote and put together floor joist and roof truss/rafters layouts since they already have your plan. Most people know of someone in the trades(family/friends) -start there. Ask them for recommendations for other sub contractors. Get quotes from multiple subs. There are a lot of hacks out there. Honestly, the best crews are usually small outfits, 1-3 people. They never advertise because they don’t need to. They typically care more about their craft than just taking on as many jobs as possible. Larger companies will be on the radio/tv but the guy you talk to that sells you their work you’ll never see again, just a dozen illegal immigrants doing sub par work as fast as humanly possible. And you probably won’t be able to communicate with them!!
Good luck, it truly is the Wild West right now in the construction industry!

Spoken like someone not even remotely connected to said industry. Have you been the GC on your own build? Or are you recommending that just to pretend to have something useful to contribute?

I’ve seen several guys try to GC themselves without any prior experience…it has never been less than an unmitigated disaster if they don’t have some relevant prior experience.

Edit to add: you may well be in some jurisdiction without a legit code enforcement department, or where there aren’t legitimate businesses/contractors to take on the project, where you have to rely on 2-3 man crews who will take triple the time for a relatively simple build. If that’s the case, disregard what I said and go fumble-%#€£ your way through a build.

 

[Beendare]

"Verbal bid"

Ha hah ha ...sorry if someone else beat me to it, I didn't read past the first page.

I'm a contractor and around here in CA most of our stuff was upwards of $700/sqft...and climbing. Don't shoot the messenger...costs and red tape has risen exponentially.

 

[Reburn]

Spoken like someone not even remotely connected to said industry. Have you been the GC on your own build? Or are you recommending that just to pretend to have something useful to contribute?

I’ve seen several guys try to GC themselves without any prior experience…it has never been less than an unmitigated disaster if they don’t have some relevant prior experience.

Edit to add: you may well be in some jurisdiction without a legit code enforcement department, or where there aren’t legitimate businesses/contractors to take on the project, where you have to rely on 2-3 man crews who will take triple the time for a relatively simple build. If that’s the case, disregard what I said and go fumble-%#€£ your way through a build.

The OP needs a bank. Most banks will not let you GC your own stuff anymore. They got left with too may houses unfinished and underwater.

 

[Drenalin]

Actually nearly every GC I work for relies on me and/or other subs to figure their shit out for them!!!! Yeah, I see it every f***** day ass.
House of that size is very doable to GC yourself. May not be for the OP but it is worth consideration if he’s looking to save

Interesting…to you it’s the GC’s job to figure out the build, rather than the people the owner hires to design/engineer it. You must live in a very small, narrow-minded world, or be primarily involved in trailer parks.

Most people can’t manage their weekly groceries, let alone GCing their own home. You must be accustomed to spending 6-8 months on what should be a 3-4 month build. But I bet you’re doing well!

 

[woods89]

Worth noting that construction is one of the most litigated industries. If you are in the industry you haven’t arrived until you have been sued on a frivolous lawsuit and had to spend 100k to defend yourself. You as a customer are getting to pay because the last jackasssss sued because he "heard" they would just settle and give him 25k.

Thankfully we haven't had to deal with that particular joy. Fingers crossed!

 

[Schmo]

The only way to accomplish this these days, if you can’t make peace with the numbers, is to put a lot of sweat equity into it. I know that’s a whole lot easier said than done, and a lot of people don’t have the know-how. I’m just wrapping up my own house. It’s a tiny house (12X36, but stick built like a regular house, fully permitted & inspected, and has to meet the same codes as someone’s 5,000 sq ft house. I’ve had some help from my dad, cousin, and some friends, but I’ve put a ton of hours into it. Put material take-offs together, ordered materials, figured out what I needed, etc. This process is about the only way I can stomach the costs. Seems now you either have to make really good money, or do a ton of work yourself.

 

[Drenalin]

The OP needs a bank. Most banks will not let you GC your own stuff anymore. They got left with too may houses unfinished and underwater.

Banks aside, my jurisdiction lets any homeowner permit their own build one time per year…doesn’t matter if it’s 100k or 12M…it’s a stupid system that sets some people up for success and others for disaster.

 

[Drenalin]

The only way to accomplish this these days, if you can’t make peace with the numbers, is to put a lot of sweat equity into it. I know that’s a whole lot easier said than done, and a lot of people don’t have the know-how. I’m just wrapping up my own house. It’s a tiny house (12X36, but stick built like a regular house, fully permitted & inspected, and has to meet the same codes as someone’s 5,000 sq ft house. I’ve had some help from my dad, cousin, and some friends, but I’ve put a ton of hours into it. Put material take-offs together, ordered materials, figured out what I needed, etc. This process is about the only way I can stomach the costs. Seems now you either have to make really good money, or do a ton of work yourself.

This is a good way to go about it, and I’m a fan of anyone who does the research and puts in the effort to FIY.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Interesting…to you it’s the GC’s job to figure out the build, rather than the people the owner hires to design/engineer it. You must live in a very small, narrow-minded world, or be primarily involved in trailer parks.

Most people can’t manage their weekly groceries, let alone GCing their own home. You must be accustomed to spending 6-8 months on what should be a 3-4 month build. But I bet you’re doing well!

So all a GC does for 15% is order material and call subs?

 

[Reburn]

Banks aside, my jurisdiction lets any homeowner permit their own build one time per year…doesn’t matter if it’s 100k or 12M…it’s a stupid system that sets some people up for success and others for disaster.

Most municipalities around here are so hard that professional builders cant even get their house permitted the first time. They get their peepees kicked in over manual Js time and time again. If someone was able to get their own permit through good luck with the 30 some odd inspections. Plus frankly. Any good trade is married up to a builder and wont even take work from a individual.

 

[Schmo]

This is a good way to go about it, and I’m a fan of anyone who does the research and puts in the effort to FIY.

Yeah, and I’ll say that doing one this size is a really good way to get a feel for things for next time. Hoping to do this one or two more times, each bigger than the previous. Not too big tho. I don’t really have a desire for a house any larger than 1500-1800 sq ft, even when I have kids. Growing up, we never had a house larger than about 1550 sq ft.

 

[CodeMonkey]

It 2026. It's totally normal for a guy to try to **** you, especially in construction.

 

[woods89]

What about the bugger eating liars that want compensated the same as the masters of the trade?
How are we supposed to determine a master from a tool bag.

We all have stressors at or job, deadlines to meet etc

Different trade, same stuff. Why should you be compensated at a 2x-3x rate

You make it sound like trust fund babies don’t want to pay your rate. When it’s mostly hard working folks up against the same things trying to afford it?


Also why was the Amish guys bid the same, he ain’t w2 no body or paying any taxes.

If you want to figure out who is a legitimate craftsman in your area, the best way is to ask around among the folks you know who might hire such a person, or a busy local lumberyard, supply house, etc. Most communities are going to have these guys around, you just can't necessarily find them on the internet. I say this as someone who is currently paying to have a website developed, lol.

Generally these folks can be found with a little work. The issue lies, however, that in the OP's case, if he would have contacted the real professional in his community, he would have got a legitimate estimate in writing for likely somewhere between $450,000 and $600,000. As we see, this isn't a good value to him, and a lot of people can't resist the urge to tell everyone the professional is "just ripping people off" and go consult with the guy who tells them what they want to hear, and then wind up with either a partially unfinished project, vastly increased costs to finish, or some variation of the two. The reality is, getting a quality product is simply going to cost between $450-$600,000, and one way deals with that up front and one way deals with a real mess mid project.

The answer to this is aggressively prequalifying customers, which is an art in itself.

I feel for hard working people who are coming to grips with not being able to achieve their dreams, but I work hard, and know good and well I can't afford a Lamborghini. So I stay happy with more moderate vehicles. And, ironically, live in a house built in the 70s.

As far as the Amish guy not paying taxes and bidding the same, I simply think this was a couple guys throwing numbers out there with no rhyme or reason. A lot of contractors really don't know their numbers very well.

 

[Whitefox82]

1-3 man crews are more likely to be experienced and with experience comes efficiency and with efficiency comes speed. And clean work!
I framed for 15 years before going out on my own in 2014. I do exterior finishing now and the average new construction homes I work on are probably about 6000 sq ft. I WORK SOLO!!! I refuse to compromise quality for speed. And I don’t hold hands or babysit dipshits, I am legitimately faster solo. In doing so I have to work MY ASS OFF!
I just finished siding a 15000 sq ft house at the end of last year. It took me 2.5 months.
I don’t consider that “fumbling around”.
My customers and builders refuse to use anyone else because they know the work I do. A few of them have searched around and they come back to me. I’m not trying to brag but I can pretty much charge what I want within reason. What homeowners need to be careful of are the contractors who are charging more than what they’re worth. Word of mouth usually takes care of them but it takes time.

 

[Drenalin]

So all a GC does for 15% is order material and call subs?

And demand a particular standard of work, depending on the GC, as well as coordinating that work so things happen when they’re supposed to happen, versus letting things happen. (I.e….maintaining schedule and budget(.

I’m not in the residential market..I’ve done three extremely high-end homes in my 15 year career ($4.5m-$15M), along with hundreds of commercial projects. And we work much lower than 15%, depending on total project value…the level of project management/high-end GC-shit is directly proportional to the project value.

But to directly answer your question, yes…getting materials right the first time, and getting subs on site at the right time, with the right materials, with the minimal amount of mobilization fees, is part of a competent GC’s role.