Budget trainer build ideas?

[steelheadmike]

I have a Rem 700 BDL in 223 that I want to try to make a trainer out of it. Before anyone chimes in with "sell it and buy a tikka", it's technically my dad's rifle, so that's not much of an option. It currently has a 6.5-20 burris in leupold bases/rings. Shoot's okay with 50gr varmint bullets. I think the barrel is 1:12 so I'm pretty much stuck shooting sub-60gr bullets.

But, I'd like to make it into a functional trainer, but I want to do it on the super-cheap because if I drop too much money into, I might as well buy a tikka.

Options I'm looking at are:

-Chop/thread the barrel for a can.
-Get a cheap bottom metal to convert to mag feed because I despise the BDL:
https://www.legacysports.com/product/detachable-magazine-drop-in-kits-remington-700-bdl/
-Swap scopes. Maybe a 6x SWFA if I can find one but I'll probably go with whatever decent 3-9 I can find on sale.
-Hog out the barrel channel for a little better free float.

Any other ideas?

 

[Dave0317]

Don’t chop and thread for the can. I would re-barrel before I’d put more money into a 1:12 .223 barrel. I had one, a 700 .223 SPS Varminter. Sold it because I wanted to shoot the heavier bullets at long range.


You could Put that money into a stock and scope.
New stock could come with new bottom metal depending on what you go with. Like KRG Bravo.

 

[HandgunHTR]

The purpose of a trainer is to make it as functionally similar to your hunting rig as possible. So, unless your hunting rigs are also R700 actions with DBM and factory stocks, I wouldn’t put a lot of $ or effort into turning it into a “trainer”. Now, if you want to modify it so that it is more fun to shoot, go for it.
I wouldn’t rule out keeping a close eye on the classifieds for Remage setups that will work with the 223 bolt face.

 

[coyotekilla]

I have a ruger american g2 that is my "trainer" its not so much of a trainer as it is a very affordable rifle to shoot. I think I'm reloading 223 for $8.60 a box using a 55gr soft point that's lethal on varmits, including coyotes. As for your rem 700, all said and done by the time you restock to get a detach mag, thread the barrel, your still gonna have a 1:12 twist... id just get a tikka, howa, ruger that's ready to go.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

The idea of a “trainer” rifle is sort of ridiculous to me. Bolt action rifles all work the same other than a few different types of safeties. Ditch the “trainer” idea and just get it set up to shoot the way you like.

I also agree with the guy that said to re barrel it. I’d personally just leave it as it is and go buy a Ruger American gen 2 ranch rifle in 223 or 6arc or something. Probably cheaper and faster than a re barrel job.

 

[RWT]

Your time is worth something. You will spend hours searching for a used barrel or good deal on the bottom metal. Put that “time” that is $, into a new or used 223 closer to what you want.

I would go with the SWFA10x. I have been forcing myself to shoot all the time with my Mavens on 10x. I have an older swfa10x and found I can hunt with it. The 6x is to difficult to find at a reasonable price.

 

[Chris in TN]

The idea of a “trainer” rifle is sort of ridiculous to me. Bolt action rifles all work the same other than a few different types of safeties. Ditch the “trainer” idea and just get it set up to shoot the way you like.

I see both sides of this.

I like having a 'trainer' rifle but don't believe the trainer has to be the exact same action. A kid learning to shoot will see no difference between the safety, bolt, trigger, between, say, a 700 and a T3x. Or any other of several different potential actions you might use.

I have a Tikka 595 in .223 and my kids have never even shot it. Their 'trainers' are a 16" AR and a couple of CZ457s. Once they get that some rifles self-cycle and others require you to work a bolt, the little details of brands seem insignificant.

FWIW I believe the concept of 'trainers' matching your full-sized gun, is more important with handguns.

 

[TaperPin]

Any shooting is good for training, with any rifle and any scope. There’s no substitute for trigger time.

However, muscle memory is what is practiced and there’s value in an identical rifle to what’s used hunting.

I’m always impressed when someone can shoot an AR, or lever action, and turn around and shoot well during stressful hunting situations. Short stroking a bolt gun has cost guys I know a number of animals over the decades. At the range too often guys are single feeding their rifles and it doesn’t require a full bolt stroke. Much better is feeding every shot from a magazine.

My personal sad story of how a mismatched trainer cost me an animal, a very good animal, is related to the safety more than anything. At the time I was shooting a lot and felt quite comfortable shooting standing, sitting or prone. My training gun was a Remington 700 243 and the primary deer gun was also a Remington, but there was a Winchester 70 elk rifle that can reach out and it was taken out once in a while. The day where rubber meets the road I was in the trees just off timberline and sat down for lunch on a small secondary ridge. I preach being ready for quick shots, because 25 yards from where I sat eating for 20 minutes was a deer I’d love to have on the wall. I had walked 5 feet when he jumped up and my butt clinched up. The distance was so close he hauled ass for a thick cluster of trees and stood looking back long enough for a shot, but the rifle wouldn’t fire. It only took a few seconds to figure out the safety was on, but that’s all it took for the deer to walk away.

It still makes my stomach knot up telling the story decades later and have committed to preventing that from ever happening again. In all the excitement of an adrenaline rush from the close deer, a demanding sprint to get ready for a challenging offhand shot, muscle memory was taking over. With a Remington the safety is right where the thumb pushes it off almost subconsciously, but at the range I was guilty of not normally using a safety, just putting a thumb where the safety is and if you can’t feel it the gun is good to go, so it’s use wasn’t worn into muscle memory. That year I sold the Winchester and since have religiously use a safety at the range so feeling it push off is ground into the process.

Anyone can say the trainer doesn’t matter, but for me watching an amazing deer walk away has made it worthwhile to train with a rifle as close to the primary hunting rifle as humanly possible.

 

[Pilsner]

The purpose of a trainer, as stated above, is to DUPLICATE your hunting rifle/optic exactly with the only difference being the use of a smaller, cheaper chambering.
You have yet to say what your main hunting set up is?
If it isn't also a Rem 700 then you aren't building a trainer rifle - you are building/buying another rifle that is in .223. Which is fine and a perfect excuse to get another rifle.
Any trigger time has some training value attached to it but the big rifle/trainer rifle concept is a little more particular. Kinda of an "all poodles are dogs, but not all dogs are poodles" scenario if you will.
Especially if you subscribe to the idea that PERFECT practice makes for perfect performance.
For most bolt guns the operations are close enough to mostly not make a big difference - it's the optics matching that makes the difference. For instance if you practice using a BDC system in a SFP optic for practice but hunt with a FFP optic that you dial then that isn't practicing the same skill set.

 

[Chris in TN]

The purpose of a trainer, as stated above, is to DUPLICATE your hunting rifle/optic exactly with the only difference being the use of a smaller, cheaper chambering.

That's fine for a 5.56 trainer but even then the bolt cycle is going to be a hair shorter than a 6.5cm or longer cartridge, and no .22lr is going to duplicate the bolt motions and resistance of a centerfire rifle exactly, and at some point, let's be honest, shooters need to be able to pick up some random rifle and figure it out without everything having to be exactly the same every shot. Ideally this should happen by the time they hit puberty or perhaps the same timeframe in which they learn to ride a bicycle without training wheels. Let's not drag it out into adulthood. A grown man ought to be able to pick up any number of firearms and within seconds recognize what's in his hands and be able to put it to work without too much stress. I grew up with low-pro Mauser safeties on some rifles and tang safeties on other rifles (usually Ruger M77s bought by friends who didn't know better) and typical R700 levers and Winchester 3-positions and the occasional Anschutz or Brno Model 1. It never occurred to me until I started reading dogma from 'trainers' that being able to manipulate more than one type of safety was some sort of superpower.

I fear that certain aspects of training dogma end up creating crutches and dumbed-down shooters, and this is one of them. In a similar fashion, instead of everyone switching to mrads, people should have taken remedial math classes until they could round to the nearest 1/4 moa. But that's another can of worms.

 

[Pilsner]

While I tend to agree with the thought behind what you say I know enough about training humans to know better. I have had occasion to train humans in and for high stress situations and events off and on for the last four decades. To expect a hunter to be able to convert from mils to MOA in the moment while they are looking at the biggest buck of their life is asinine.
I also agree that the "average good rifleman" SHOULD be able to adjust on the fly to these changes and you are absolutely correct - absent the stress of the moment. That is exactly what I expect from myself and my peer group, but we are all lifelong shooters and military shooters. The OP is not any of those things to my knowledge. And what about the beginner?

Why is the idea that you would practice with a duplicate rifle to what you hunt with creating a crutch and dumbing down the task?!
Also the task discussed was for a guy to purchase/build a rifle not to do a battle field pick up a la your video game wet dreams. *Humor and pun intended*
-Doc

 

[Chris in TN]

My kids started off as beginners with whatever was short enough for them then my dad did one of the biggest things ever to happen to our family marksmanship, he bought the kids a cz457 at-one. Now all of us could shoot the same rifle. But there’s not really a perfect centerfire analog to that, but the kids at least learned the bolt and safety motions.

Hasn’t been an issue in the field yet. Never has been for me.

Part of my post was meant to be slightly tongue in cheek. That’s me pushing back on overly dogmatic trainers and the mentality that develops in a vacuum. You ‘mil guys get a short timeframe in which you have to teach some less than stellar students how to do things. Training the same repetitive movements is great, but it’s not the whole picture. Training should be both broad and deep, not either/or. For me, I have the luxury of doing so with people who are kinda stuck living under my roof. In .mil or recreational training scenarios your time is more limited and you have to set realistic goals based on what you have to work with. I’m not bound by those constraints and I don’t play video games or really care about battlefield pickups; AKs will always be trash can guns and if you’re picking those up you need an air strike and an evacuation. But my point is, you should recognize that your constraints aren’t ideal and a lot of the training you do is a band-aid remedial approach, almost by definition, because you’re teaching 18-40 year olds stuff they should have learned from 8-14.

I just want people to be able to pick up your average generic bolt gun and sort out how it works and yes, how to adjust the scope or use the reticle, for hits beyond point blank range, without feeling like they have to go re-train or falter at rounding to the nearest 1/4. If you’ve been shooting for 40 years (so have I) you understand the problem. I see the solution as being deep and broad training across a range of platforms with what amount to fairly minor differences, and for reasons that go far beyond hunting proficiency. It’s inexcusable for America to not be a nation of riflemen. It’s our heritage and privilege and the very core of our strength and I suppose I could say more that goes past the scope of this thread.

Suffice to say, I don’t think a training rifle has to be an exact copy of a bigger hunting rifle. My kids shoot their CZ and we throw in a 10/22 every now and then and we use 5.56 ARs then their centerfire deer gun is a tikka t3 that has virtually the same controls as a 457. Certainly close enough.

Would a guy starting with a blank slate do well to have multiple near-identical rifles across the caliber spectrum? Yeah, sure. But that’s never been the norm and most people aren’t going to sell everything and start over and that’s not a bad thing.