** BROADHEADS ** Science & Math

[worx53]

Concerning the "drag" vs just bow tuning adjustments I've been referring to , I just had a video come up on my YouTube feed that explains the planing effect towards field point / broadhead grouping by nockon archery. Check out "How to tune your compound hunting bow so your broadheads group with your field points" . Slight adjustments to the rest bring the groups closer together from the planing effect.


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[5MilesBack]

If you want to see BH planing effects, after you're done tuning shoot the same BH on a bare shaft arrow. Even slight changes in fletching has a big impact on BH flight.

 

[worx53]

If you want to see BH planing effects, after you're done tuning shoot the same BH on a bare shaft arrow. Even slight changes in fletching has a big impact on BH flight.

You got that right for sure!

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[justin davis]

Messing around with a different arrow setup last night. I tuned until bareshaft hit with field point at 30. Then I screwed on a a fixed broadhead and shot it with a field point at 92 yards. Doesn’t get much closer than that

 

[RampartLB]

The problem here is sample size, I have had great luck with very specific broadheads that are non vented shooting well beyond 80yds in terms of showing little to no vertical separation from field points. I don’t doubt that you shoot great at distance, but what you’re insinuating here is that you Intentionally aimed off of the center of your 18-1 for two shots in a row and showed no POI shift? Again, I’m not trying to throw stones at anyone with this but let’s call it how it is. There’s a lot of guys and gals who get paid a lot of money to do that with target rigs and even they are not shooting that consistently. I’ve seen a lot of heads that group within the average group size of a great shot under 60yds, after that most fixed blades will always separate. Finding one that clings to your field points beyond 80 takes a very high quality head, and some serious shooting.

 

[justin davis]

The problem here is sample size, I have had great luck with very specific broadheads that are non vented shooting well beyond 80yds in terms of showing little to no vertical separation from field points. I don’t doubt that you shoot great at distance, but what you’re insinuating here is that you Intentionally aimed off of the center of your 18-1 for two shots in a row and showed no POI shift? Again, I’m not trying to throw stones at anyone with this but let’s call it how it is. There’s a lot of guys and gals who get paid a lot of money to do that with target rigs and even they are not shooting that consistently. I’ve seen a lot of heads that group within the average group size of a great shot under 60yds, after that most fixed blades will always separate. Finding one that clings to your field points beyond 80 takes a very high quality head, and some serious shooting.

Yea my arrows were shooting a touch left. I was aiming at the middle of the target (spray painted white). I was dialing in some new arrows. And I’m liking the way they are shooting.

At the end of the shooting session I moved the sight a couple clicks to bring the arrows into the center as they were shooting left of where I was aiming. They should be right on now.

But yea I aimed at the rinehart and shot a broadhead and a field point to see how the broadhead was shooting.. Prior to that I was shooting with field points at a 3-d target at 101 and my arrows were all hitting a little left. I wanted to check my tune and see how my a broadhead would shoot. So I Went to 92 and fired 2 arrows. about smashed each other. I don’t consider my bow tuned until my broadheads hit close with field points at 100 yards. I like to shoot at 100 yards pretty much every day or days when I shoot. It’s challenging and some days I can just put them in there. Other days the groups are much larger. Although I like to shoot far for practice..when i hunting I won’t shoot over 60 yards. A follow up shot might be different. But for practice and tuning purposes the long range shooting helps me dial in and get better.

 

[RosinBag]

So you took a photo of two arrows with a neat story, but I don’t buy it. Unless you are the best archer and bow tuner in the world. I would say it’s an anomaly or you were not holding in the same spot. Just my opinion based on all the factors I am taking into consideration.

 

[CamoPirate]

I kind of get what people are on about, but at the same time what the ****. Shoot field points to your comfortable distance, then shoot broadheads to group relatively close with field points. Get broadheads to shoot where you want. Then spend more time practicing shooting/in the field. Why are we complicating simple things?

 

[cured_ham]

Awesome work but as someone who shoots fixed blades on a heavy arrow I am offended by your findings.

 

[Jimbob]

I think everyone can agree that it is a FACT that broadheads and field points shoot differently even from a perfectly tuned bow.

However, if I can shoot an 8" group at 80 yds with my field points and broadheads but the broadhead group is centered 3" lower then I will still have a pretty large overlap. In that case, it will appear that my broadheads and field points hit together, especially when I only consider the "good" shots.

 

[Chad E]

So you took a photo of two arrows with a neat story, but I don’t buy it. Unless you are the best archer and bow tuner in the world. I would say it’s an anomaly or you were not holding in the same spot. Just my opinion based on all the factors I am taking into consideration.

So just so its clear you are calling Justin a liar? Don't beat around the bush come out and say it if thats what your getting at.

 

[RosinBag]

So just so its clear you are calling Justin a liar? Don't beat around the bush come out and say it if thats what your getting at.

I am saying I don’t believe the story as it is portrayed. You can infer anything you want by that.

 

[5MilesBack]

However, if I can shoot an 8" group at 80 yds with my field points and broadheads but the broadhead group is centered 3" lower then I will still have a pretty large overlap. In that case, it will appear that my broadheads and field points hit together, especially when I only consider the "good" shots.

If your BH's are hitting 3" lower than your FP's, it absolutely won't "appear that your BH's and FP's hit together". They either hit together or they don't. If you shoot enough BH's throughout the year it should be real easy to see whether they are truly hitting together or not.

 

[Billy Goat]

There is no way that broadheads can fly identical to field points. The resistance on the blades will create a little more drag than a field point. I do think we can tune to where within practical hunting range they fly the same.


The heavier the arrow the easier it is for it to overcome the resistance the blades create, especially with small cutting area heads.


The only thing to debate is what is a practical group for field conditions. I can take a shooting machine and have it shoot the same arrow in the same hole at 60 yards. With a 1/2 dozen arrows it will produce a group the size of X. When broadheads are applied to those arrows and that group increases slightly to the size of X times .5 does that mean they still fly the same?? Statistically no, but for practical purposes?? Yes.


I have argued that I have broadheads that fly with fieldpoints, do I? Not precisely. Within reason? Yes, for hunting ranges.


I'd say don't knock @RosinBag. He brings a lot of knowledge. I have disagreed with him on several things, but it's really on nitpicking things.


I'll agree that just because two arrows hit the same spot it's not nearly a large enough data set. Put a piece of paper up and shoot 10 field points followed by 10 broadheads, analyze that.

I broadhead tune at 60-70 yards. My broadheads hit with my fieldpoints at that range, they probably fly a little high at 20-30, but I can't see the difference. 1/2" ain't going to matter at 30 yards on an animal.

 

[5MilesBack]

I always BH tune at 60 yards, and I expect those arrows to be together. That may take several shots and several adjustments to get that, but once they're together.......they should stay together on two good shots whether those shots are today, next month, or next year as long as nothing changes on the bow. I will say that I have broken more BH's at 20 yards by shooting a FP arrow into the back of them, than I have shot into animals over the years.

I would also agree though that one BH and FP each is a very small sample size and only as good as that shot group. But if you shoot several hundred BH shots over the course of a year, you really should know by then whether your BH's are truly hitting with your FP's at whatever distance you're shooting them.

 

[Jimbob]

If your BH's are hitting 3" lower than your FP's, it absolutely won't "appear that your BH's and FP's hit together". They either hit together or they don't. If you shoot enough BH's throughout the year it should be real easy to see whether they are truly hitting together or not.

Yes, you need to be a very good shot and you need to shoot a lot to distinguish them.

If your group is 8" (bigger for many) and you only take a few shots then it will absolutely APPEAR that they hit together. I'm using the word appear very purposefully here.

 

[5MilesBack]

I'm using the word appear very purposefully here.

I'm the kind of guy where my employees would go into my office and move the pen on my desk 1/4" or tilt a picture frame the same amount, and then make bets on whether I would notice. Those that bet I wouldn't notice always lost.

 

[Beendare]

I think everyone can agree that it is a FACT that broadheads and field points shoot differently even from a perfectly tuned bow.

i would disagree. ...as Im sure would many others who BH tune Their bows.

ive had many bows that when tuned shoot Bhs/FPs to the same POI at bowhunting distances.

any study like the one in the OP has a standard deviation. When talking small percentage differences, std dev could explain this.
Shooter
chrony
conditions, etc

then there is tune and arrow config

when talking percentages,, ive seen huge differences when comparing arrows that are 100 gr apart. my guess is the OP arrow is in the low 400gr range, more susceptible to other influences.

what we are really talking here is drag coefficient of your bh. Yes its a thing for guys shooting animals at 100 yds, for the rest of us no.

 

[justin davis]

So you took a photo of two arrows with a neat story, but I don’t buy it. Unless you are the best archer and bow tuner in the world. I would say it’s an anomaly or you were not holding in the same spot. Just my opinion based on all the factors I am taking into consideration.

I’m not the best archer or bow tuner. But it’s not an anomaly. I aimed at the same spot. I do this quite often. I like to shoot at 100 yards fairly often for practice.

My point with the pic was that I took two arrows shot at the same spot from long distance. And they almost hit the same exact same spot from 92 yards. So to me the fixed blade and the field points flew exactly the same.

 

[Brendan]

I’m not the best archer or bow tuner. But it’s not an anomaly. I aimed at the same spot. I do this quite often. I like to shoot at 100 yards fairly often for practice.

My point with the pic was that I took two arrows shot at the same spot from long distance. And they almost hit the same exact same spot from 92 yards. So to me the fixed blade and the field points flew exactly the same.

Let's see a group of 10 field points at 100 yards. Or better yet, 12 ends of 5 for 60 arrows.

One of the reasons you're getting called out is you have a thing for posting these two arrow "hero groups" like you can do it all the time, when in actuality some of the best archers on the planet can't regularly shoot groups that small at that range.