Broadhead Tuning. The optimal methodology

[Beendare]

Bare shaft tuning works….and it usually gets a guy very close or right on to BH tune.

BUT, shooting 4 bareshafts in a row perfect can show different indications.

BHs dont lie…and thats why many just skip to BH tuning. Then shoot numbered shafts with BHs and any spine ( or other) issues show up like a fly in butter When that arrow is consistently out.

Thisis why I choose a BH that works well in that system of tuning. One thats strong and I can touch up easily and into the quiver.

 

[fatlander]

That's cool.

But, I've watched them make Axis' in their factory from start to finish with my own eyes. I've learned how they grade and sort the shafts and why. That's how I know what I just told you is true.

Your nock alignment changes are compensating for a squaring issue on the front or back end of the arrow, a straightness issue, or another component inconsistency. It is very unlikely its a deflection imperfection within the shaft which needs to be compensated for by turning the nock.

In terms of straightness between a match grade and a standard Axis, when it comes to the "all carbon" arrows (as a generalization), you will notice a bigger difference in straightness variation between grades. But, not so much with say an FMJ in terms of the two grades, simply because its easier to achieve straighter shaft tolerances with aluminum vs carbon.

Whether it’s spine alignment issue, straightness issues, and/or nock to shaft inconsistency, the point is that just because you buy match grade arrows doesn’t mean nock tuning isn’t valuable. I’ve never had a dozen arrows from any manufacturer that didn’t require at least a couple nocks to not get turned.

After all, consistently perfect flying arrows is what the OP, and all bow hunters, are after.


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[Zac]

I disagree with this based on my own experience. I shoot the 5mm Axis arrows. The last 24 I built were half match grade and half 0.003". Before I fletch them, I nock tune every one to get the best tear possible. There wasn't much difference between the two grades in terms of how many needed to have the nock twisted. There was probably about a dozen that had bullet holes right away, and the rest of them needed varying degrees of tuning.

You could save more time by simply replacing the nock. It would be interesting if anyone could shed some light on the Iron Will shafts that are squared mechanically. My guess is that they do not need anything at all.

 

[LuvsFixedBlades]

Whether it’s spine alignment issue, straightness issues, and/or nock to shaft inconsistency, the point is that just because you buy match grade arrows doesn’t mean nock tuning isn’t valuable. I’ve never had a dozen arrows from any manufacturer that didn’t require at least a couple nocks to not get turned.

After all, consistently perfect flying arrows is what the OP, and all bow hunters, are after.


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I appreciate your comment, and I know the goal is perfect arrow flight. I will tell you, I've never had a dozen arrows from Easton that needed half of them to be tuned to fly right. Ever. I've built thousands.

Soooo, it's something in your build process. You very rarely need to turn a nock to get great arrow performance if your build practices are A1. That is my point.

How many of you pull your nocks and perfectly square the back end of the arrow that has been hacked off from the factory? Just because it has factory nocks installed doesn't mean it's square.

I didn't say buying match grade will solve all of your problems. But, it does solve some, especially if you are talking all carbon shafts. If you are getting 50% flyers from a match grade shaft, the problem is in the build process. Period.

 

[fatlander]

I appreciate your comment, and I know the goal is perfect arrow flight. I will tell you, I've never had a dozen arrows from Easton that needed half of them to be tuned to fly right. Ever. I've built thousands.

Soooo, it's something in your build process. You very rarely need to turn a nock to get great arrow performance if your build practices are A1. That is my point.

How many of you pull your nocks and perfectly square the back end of the arrow that has been hacked off from the factory? Just because it has factory nocks installed doesn't mean it's square.

I didn't say buying match grade will solve all of your problems. But, it does solve some, especially if you are talking all carbon shafts. If you are getting 50% flyers from a match grade shaft, the problem is in the build process. Period.

I pull the nocks and square all of mine. I’ve never had to turn half of a dozen either. It’s usually 2-4/dozen that need a turn.


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[KBC]

That's cool.

But, I've watched them make Axis' in their factory from start to finish with my own eyes. I've learned how they grade and sort the shafts and why. That's how I know what I just told you is true.

Your nock alignment changes are compensating for a squaring issue on the front or back end of the arrow, a straightness issue, or another component inconsistency. It is very unlikely its a deflection imperfection within the shaft which needs to be compensated for by turning the nock. If you have to "nock tune" half of your arrows just to get a clean tear, there is something not correct in your build process. It's not the shafts needing to be tuned.

In terms of straightness between a match grade and a standard Axis, when it comes to the "all carbon" arrows (as a generalization), you will notice a bigger difference in straightness variation between grades. But, not so much with say an FMJ in terms of the two grades, simply because its easier to achieve straighter shaft tolerances with aluminum vs carbon.

That's cool.

But, you're still saying nock tuning does some good. Even if the manufacturing process you witnessed with your own eyes (who else's eyes would you have witnessed them with?) is as perfect as you say, there's too many variables for everything to be perfect.

I cut both ends, sometimes just 1/4" off one end and the rest off the other after spinning them, then I square both ends on my jig with 400 grit sand paper as carefully as possible so I induce as little flex as possible in the shaft. The brass inserts are glued in as carefully as possible and left to dry for at least 24 hours. Then the nocks, collars and points go on and the shots through paper start. 6 out of 12 will shoot perfect holes right away. The rest get the nocks turned 1/8" at a time to get the best tear possible. A couple of the 6 start with pretty good tears and end up with the nock back to the original spot.

These Axis shafts are great but my point is that as anal as I am putting these together, I'm still human and there's a lot of steps to building a good arrow. There's no way any of us are good enough to make a dozen of these things without needing the benefit of a nock tune on at least a few of them.

I'm sorry, I read the message I quoted above as a bit condescending so my reply started out a little similar. I'm just another douche arguing on the internet.

 

[KBC]

You could save more time by simply replacing the nock. It would be interesting if anyone could shed some light on the Iron Will shafts that are squared mechanically. My guess is that they do not need anything at all.

I already buy a dozen extra nocks because I prefer something other than the green ones they come with, these things are expensive enough

 

[KBC]

Bare shaft tuning works….and it usually gets a guy very close or right on to BH tune.

BUT, shooting 4 bareshafts in a row perfect can show different indications.

BHs dont lie…and thats why many just skip to BH tuning. Then shoot numbered shafts with BHs and any spine ( or other) issues show up like a fly in butter When that arrow is consistently out.

Thisis why I choose a BH that works well in that system of tuning. One thats strong and I can touch up easily and into the quiver.

This man speaks the truth.

I had to replace my strings this week and was at the range tuning today. I did a little bare shaft tuning and had it good to 30 after a bit of adjustment. I was shaving field points and putting nicks in the back side of my broad head blades out to 40 on my nock tuned arrows. I'll head back tomorrow to get things good to 70-80.

 

[NYyotekiller]

I used to do the 1/2 tune on paper and then just BH tune, but now I bareshaft tune and have had better results. I prefer to practice at longer yardages so this might be why it’s worked better for me.

I bareshaft tune at 30 yards until I’m hitting where I need to be, then shoot BH’s at the same and adjust accordingly from there.

Like previously mentioned, if your using quality components with the correct spine and your build process is correct then you shouldn’t have any issues.

 

[LuvsFixedBlades]

That's cool.

But, you're still saying nock tuning does some good. Even if the manufacturing process you witnessed with your own eyes (who else's eyes would you have witnessed them with?) is as perfect as you say, there's too many variables for everything to be perfect.

I cut both ends, sometimes just 1/4" off one end and the rest off the other after spinning them, then I square both ends on my jig with 400 grit sand paper as carefully as possible so I induce as little flex as possible in the shaft. The brass inserts are glued in as carefully as possible and left to dry for at least 24 hours. Then the nocks, collars and points go on and the shots through paper start. 6 out of 12 will shoot perfect holes right away. The rest get the nocks turned 1/8" at a time to get the best tear possible. A couple of the 6 start with pretty good tears and end up with the nock back to the original spot.

These Axis shafts are great but my point is that as anal as I am putting these together, I'm still human and there's a lot of steps to building a good arrow. There's no way any of us are good enough to make a dozen of these things without needing the benefit of a nock tune on at least a few of them.

I'm sorry, I read the message I quoted above as a bit condescending so my reply started out a little similar. I'm just another douche arguing on the internet.

All good man. Wasn't intending to be condescending. It seems I need to be more careful about that.

I've done work for the two biggest arrow companies and I only invest my time on Rokslide to try an help people on topics I'm very well versed in. Tim Gillingham originally taught me how to build arrows, and I've been accumulating tips from the other archery companies I work for as I go. That's where I'm coming from, and I should probably just not reply when people have differing opinions. I just want to help. I'm a stubborn bastard with a unique educational background in archery, so that kind of exacerbates the problem.

You do what works for you. I hope you get great arrow flight with your methods and have a great season

 

[MattB]

You could save more time by simply replacing the nock. It would be interesting if anyone could shed some light on the Iron Will shafts that are squared mechanically. My guess is that they do not need anything at all.

An alternative thesis is that, just because a manufacturing process doesn’t produce shafts that have a seam, it doesn’t mean that every shaft has perfectly even dynamic spine around the shaft.

 

[Zac]

An alternative thesis is that, just because a manufacturing process doesn’t produce shafts that have a seam, it doesn’t mean that every shaft has perfectly even dynamic spine around the shaft.

I agree, but the idea that you have to turn the nock on a bare shaft of that quality before you fletch it is absurd. If a shaft seems to impact differently out of the group then it may need a turn here or there, or a new nock. Dudley has been on a tyrant lately about how much BS goes into arrow building, and a I completely agree.

 

[Brendan]

Easy - Shoot a bare shaft/FP and a fletched FP and adjust until they hit the same. Assuming you chose the right arrows, done. I might be able to make some small tweaks with long range broadheads vs. field points after that, but usually don't have to.

Been doing it this way for years now and I don't ever see myself paper tuning again because it's not worth the time to get set up and bare shafts show errors easier / faster and you can have false tears through paper.