Broadhead tuning issue - RESOLVED

[SDHNTR]

The Easton tuning guide contradicts itself between the paper tuning and broadhead tuning sections. For a nock left paper tear (which is equivalent to broadheads hitting right of field points), it says move the rest to the right (page 7). But for broadheads hitting right of field points, it says move the rest away from the bow (to the left) for a right-handed shooter (page 11).
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Also, the old weak/stiff arrow advice doesn’t make sense when tuning a modern compound bow shot with a mechanical release. It does make sense for a traditional bow shot with fingers (which is what the Easton guide is geared toward). But modern compound risers are cut way past center (so there’s nothing for the arrow to need to bend around), and a mechanical release eliminates the influence of fingers on the string.

That said, pragmatism is the number one rule in tuning: if moving something one direction doesn’t work, try moving it the opposite direction (regardless of what anyone else says is “correct”).

Thats not a contradiction, those are instructions for two different things. Paper tuning and broadhead tuning.

A mechanical release also removes or almost eliminates the circumstance of being over spined. You can absolutely still be underspined.

 

[bmart2622]

Well this whole post is Exhibit A...the op moved his rest away from the BH group and suprise suprise, it didnt work!!!

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Ok, if you don’t like that source…

I’ve been tuning bows for 20+ years. I’ve never not seen this work unless there is vane contact or a significant form flaw.

My personal experience aligns with what Gold Tip, Tim Gillingham, John Dudley, Aron Snyder, Corey Haas (and others) recommend vis-à-vis rest tuning: broadheads landing right of field points is fixed by moving the rest to the right (and vice versa). But again, do what works for you.

 

[Bump79]

Thats not a contradiction, those are instructions for two different things. Paper tuning and broadhead tuning.

A mechanical release also removes or almost eliminates the circumstance of being over spined. You can absolutely still be underspined.

I've never once had this method work for broadhead tuning. AND it did not work for the OP. Not one time in 10+ years of my bow tuning has the method you described and they did work for me.. I burned so much time learning 10 years ago because of the references you provided telling me to adjust my rest the wrong way. I started making adjustments in accordance with Gold Tip chart @Mighty Mouse shared and bam, every year I'm launching fixed blades well past 80 yards. If my broadheads consistently hit right, I'm moving that rest extremely small increments right at a time. Or shimming/adjusting cams/lean left.

Bareshaft tuning = paper tuning = broadhead tuning require the same adjustments. They all are straightening out the arrow so they all require the same adjustments.

Can you explain why a correcting a paper tear for point left/tail right tear can provide curing a broadhead point right? The broadhead is catching air and getting launched the other way?

Broadhead low = nock point down, rest up.
Broadhead right = rest right, cam left.

 

[Bump79]

@BringBackThe80s tune everyone out for a minute - just reset your bow to centershot. Then shoot broadheads and move like this. Report back when you do and let us know if it worked. I'd put a sizeable amount of money that this is all it is as long as your arrow is making it through without contact.

Broadhead low = nock point down, rest up.
Broadhead right = rest right, cam left.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Thats not a contradiction, those are instructions for two different things. Paper tuning and broadhead tuning.

If you were able to broadhead tune while simultaneously shooting through paper, what kind of paper tear would you see if the broadheads were landing right of field points? Asked another way, for a broadhead-tipped arrow that is missing field points to the right, which way is the nock end of the arrow pointing as it leaves the bow (nock right or nock left)?

A mechanical release also removes or almost eliminates the circumstance of being over spined. You can absolutely still be underspined.

I agree that being underspined can still cause issues with a compound bow shot with a mechanical release. I just don’t believe that it will consistently manifest as “weak spine = broadheads hitting right of field points” (for a right-handed shooter).

 

[Bump79]

I agree that being underspined can still cause issues with a compound bow shot with a mechanical release. I just don’t believe that it will consistently manifest as “weak spine = broadheads hitting right of field points” (for a right-handed shooter).

My experience with weak spine and mechanical release on a compound was poor broadhead grouping and just erratic flight. No particular direction but I'm sure that could happen.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

My experience with weak spine and mechanical release on a compound was poor broadhead grouping and just erratic flight. No particular direction but I'm sure that could happen.

Same. Erratic grouping/flight is what I would expect. I would agree, however, that there are likely cases where other factors might predispose an underspined arrow to trend in a particular direction.

The weak/stiff tuning advice is unfortunately often given with no explanation of the underlying mechanics and no context given for the type of bow/release or handedness of the shooter.

 

[SDHNTR]

I should also say that since yoke tuning became more common with fixed, split yoke bows, I haven’t needed to BH tune with the rest much in years. Set to center shot, shoot thru paper for a clean hole, screw on a BH and it’s usually good. Only time it hasn’t been is with an arrow that won’t spin true.

But I did shoot a Mathews single cam bow of one form or another for years and I always followed the Easton chart with no issues.

 

[Skerhunter]

I have never tuned a bow that didn’t need the rest tweaked to get broad heads to fly at distance (40-70 yards) - post yoke or shim adjustments.

As for other topics brought up. Torquing the bow just leads to erratic results (broad heads hit all around field points). Inconsistent anchor (face pressure) and your field points do the same. Need consistent results before you can make correct adjustments, these issues don’t allow for that.

Weak spine just drives you nuts because it will be very unforgiving even when tuned.

The tuning info @Mighty Mouse has shared a million times is right and everyone should have it printed out in their bow case!

 

[BringBackThe80s]

I have never tuned a bow that didn’t need the rest tweaked to get broad heads to fly at distance (40-70 yards) - post yoke or shim adjustments.

As for other topics brought up. Torquing the bow just leads to erratic results (broad heads hit all around field points). Inconsistent anchor (face pressure) and your field points do the same. Need consistent results before you can make correct adjustments, these issues don’t allow for that.

Weak spine just drives you nuts because it will be very unforgiving even when tuned.

The tuning info @Mighty Mouse has shared a million times is right and everyone should have it printed out in their bow case!

That's a good sign then--I'm getting consistent groups with field points out to 50 yds and consistent (though different POI) groups with broadheads out to 40.

I'll reset rest and sight (I photographed exact settings before I starting adjusting), then try moving my rest in the opposite direction from what I attempted today.

 

[Beendare]

That's a good sign then--I'm getting consistent groups with field points out to 50 yds and consistent (though different POI) groups with broadheads out to 40.

Yeah, consistent BH groups ...and consistent FP groups would indicate your form is very good and you are doing the exact same thing on every shot.

Inconsistent results indicate a form issue.

I would follow @Mighty Mouse's advice.

Your arrows are probably underspined....and your bow needs adjustment.

 

[BringBackThe80s]

SOLVED -- Broadheads are grouping with field points now. I set rest to 13/16" centershot (which was about 1/4" left of where my rest has been for several years) and lined up the sight. Broadheads were still landing about ~3" rightward of field points. So I moved the rest 0.2" to the right (toward the broadheads POI) and matched that with sight. Field points and broadheads are now landing together out to 30 yards.

Tomorrow or next day I can shoot, I'll shoot both at 40 yds and field points at 50 yds to confirm everything is dialed in hopes of hitting the woods this weekend. Broadheads seem to be landing a hair lower than field points at 20 yds and 1 - 1.25" low at 30 yds. Maybe I'll lower the rest and sight to bring those together, but with season already started I'm inclined to ignore what will be a 1" or less difference at actual hunting distances.

This is the last time I wait this late to start practicing with actual broadheads. I've shot 100+ shots a week for the last few months, so I should have been tuning and practicing with broadheads a long time ago. After season ends I'll get a new string, stiffer arrows, paper tune, and broadhead tune. Maybe I can find a bow press so I can yoke tune, install my own peep, etc.

Thanks to everybody for your suggestions and input!

 

[Tilzbow]

Broadheads seem to be landing a hair lower than field points at 20 yds and 1 - 1.25" low at 30 yds. Maybe I'll lower the rest and sight to bring those together, but with season already started I'm inclined to ignore what will be a 1" or less difference at actual hunting distances.

Congrats on getting the hard part figured out! You’ll need to raise your arrow rest, not lower it, to correct for low broadheads. Don’t skip this since it’s usually really easy to correct low and high impacts compared to right and left which can drive a person off the deep end. You got the hard part figured out, the low impact should be easy.

 

[alexnelon]

Bringing up the Easton tuning info is kind of a litmus test to me because it's objectively dead wrong. It's like the "German 3" of archery.

Literally everyone who actually knows what they're talking about references the Gold Tip tuning chart.

 

[SDHNTR]

This is interesting. I learned something new. There are apparently two schools of broadhead tuning thought in play, and they propose the exact opposite of one another.

I’m not trying to ignite a debate, but there are just as many, if not more, prominent archers out there who adhere to the traditional method of broadhead tuning as indicated in the chart below and move the rest the way they want broadheads to go, or opposite of the group. Just to make sure I’m wasn’t crazy, I did a quick Google search and clearly, there are lots of us. Don’t believe me, Google it yourself. Even some prominent names, the likes of Dan Pickar of Eastmans, Joe Bell of Bowhunting and even John Dudley, stating to move the rest opposite of the BH group. They can’t all be wrong.

Like I said, it’s always worked for me. especially when I shot older Mathews single cams where fixed yoke tuning wasn’t a thing. And I never had to move a rest more than just a tiny smidge. Perhaps it pertains to how the bow is set up in the first place? Or how far off center shot it is in the first place. Or how one grips the bow. Perhaps both methods can be correct depending on the situation? Also, in the case of the OP, the situation was apparently resolved with a very small net change of the rest to the left.

You cannot dismiss one camp or the other as is being done above. I apologize for doing so previously. The apparent answer is, “it depends” and both methods can and do work, case dependent.