Bring back made in USA..

[MuleyFever]

Have thought a lot about this. In theory, bringing manufacturing back will unquestionably increase prices, but it will also require increased wages. It could be argued that that the increased prices will be offset by those increased wages, which if it actually happened, could be seen as a net positive.

So more inflation?

 

[Eltigreblanco]

People don’t want to work in factories anymore, they all want to make 100k a year playing on computers.

Sounds like a good gig to me

 

[CorbLand]

There are a lot of people who only have factory work capabilities, little or no computer skills. Problem is they are lazy and want the govt. to take are of them. If that would end, then they would take the jobs or starve.

I would argue that this is shifting and that more people now have better skills with computers than they do working in factories.

 

[Maniac_Ant]

I would argue that this is shifting and that more people now have better skills with computers than they do working in factories.

^This^

Especially considering my first Factory Manufacturing Job was Feeding Code to a CNC Lathe/Mill and making sure the Machine did not jam, Later I was able to code all my projects and Observe it remotely and now I am almost certain the same Job is Automated now, Internet/Intranet Technologies is the wave of the future for many industries I am afraid

 

[GSPHUNTER]

Not saying there’s anything wrong with it, just the reality of it. That’s exactly my point, why would you, when that’s an option. Working from home can be awesome too, and at the same time not.

Who the hell wants to build lazy boys for twenty bucks an hour when they can sit home and call people about their cars extended warranty and make the same?

Did I mention lazy people. What has happened to American pride. I don't care if you are a trash collector, be the best trash collector there is.

 

[CorbLand]

Did I mention lazy people. What has happened to American pride. I don't care if you are a trash collector, be the best trash collector there is.

So if I can make 20 bucks an hour lifting 100 pound bags of sand all day and the guy down the road is offering 20 bucks an hour lifting 50 pound bag of sand all day...I am lazy for going with the 50 pound bags?

 

[Salmon River Solutions]

“bringing stuff back” is going to be a serious battle. There are less and less people working in manufacturing. The average age of people in my trade (machining) when I looked a few years ago was 55, with over 50% of the workforce hitting retirement age in a decade or less.

don’t get me wrong, I would love work to come back and I’m happy to do it… but the government has been shitting all over manufacturing for the last 20 years and it’s at a breaking point.

 

[tdhanses]

So if I can make 20 bucks an hour lifting 100 pound bags of sand all day and the guy down the road is offering 20 bucks an hour lifting 50 pound bag of sand all day...I am lazy for going with the 50 pound bags?

Nope but you are if you collect $15 an hr to stay home and do nothing.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

So if I can make 20 bucks an hour lifting 100 pound bags of sand all day and the guy down the road is offering 20 bucks an hour lifting 50 pound bag of sand all day...I am lazy for going with the 50 pound bags?

Work smarter not harder.

 

[FLATHEAD]

I really believe it all started downhill when personal computers arrived on the scene.
Then the internet, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, etc....

He who eats from the tree of knowledge shall perish and die.

 

[mtnbiker208]

“bringing stuff back” is going to be a serious battle. There are less and less people working in manufacturing. The average age of people in my trade (machining) when I looked a few years ago was 55, with over 50% of the workforce hitting retirement age in a decade or less.

don’t get me wrong, I would love work to come back and I’m happy to do it… but the government has been shitting all over manufacturing for the last 20 years and it’s at a breaking point.

I believe it was the american consumers fault more than the governments fault. The american consumer wants goods as low priced as possible. Buyers for retailers know that, and do there best to give the american consumer what she wants.

 

[ODB]

hence why more and more manufacturing is going overseas. Nothing wrong with it, just a production shift from one part of the world to another.

La-Z-Boy is building factories in mexico, not the USA, because of this.

This was possible in China because of the largest migration of humans in history: Chinese from the rural hill country to the cities. They had to do something and would accept making hotwheels and barbie dolls than staring at the ass of a bull pulling a plow. Now, the communist government essentially sells them at lower and lower rates because they need to keep them busy because if a revolution needs anything, it needs a lot of angry people with time on their hands first…

 

[ETtikka]

Elections have consequences, unfortunately the dems have enabled the current generation of 18-30 yr olds to sit around. Plenty of able bodied young adults to fill the jobs out there, there are two kinds of countries, those that make useful products and those that don’t, we are fastly approaching the latter.

China is playing long ball and playing it well, dems are still playing checkers

 

[roadrunner]

It’s a systemic disruption of the expectations of how the world works now. A generation or more of people are now convinced that freedom means the freedom from work - hard work. Not always physical, but time-consuming. Work is getting in the way of everyone’s “best life.”

If a person isn't trying to figure out a way to work smarter and not harder, they're a damn fool. I say this because a lot of people confuse work ethic with having to work hard, either physically or time consuming. Work ethic has absolutely nothing to do with either of those two.

If a millennial can make $85K working with computers remotely, I can promise you, it isn't from a lack of the sense of work ethic...

 

[Actual_Cryptid]

"People don't want to work" is a nonsense complaint.

Look, the fundamental premise of market economies (i.e. capitalism, even market socialism) is that equilibrium is achieved where the demand curve and the supply curve meet. Well labor is a supply, and jobs are the demand. If we have people who are available to work a job, but they're not working the job, then that means that to reach equilibrium employers need to increase wages or otherwise provide additional value until their demand meets the available supply. It's on par with saying "ammo costs too much because I can't buy a case of 5.56 for $200" well sorry buttercup, the price you're offering isn't enough to compete in the market.

Look I don't want to work at McDonald's anymore than anyone else here but if it paid better than bean counting I'd do it tomorrow. For the right price I'll lick your toilet seat clean. Supply and demand. If we wanted factories to open in the US, we would probably want to look at the wage stagnation in the last 60 years, rack those wages back up (would be between 12 and 18/hr starting out, depending on the job and area). You want to attract long-term employees, start talking employee-owned companies instead of public stock.

There is a worrying trend that I don't see enough right-thinking people opposing: prison labor outsourcing. State prisons selling prison labor to for-profit companies. Great, now there's even more financial incentive to put people in prison and keep them there. I am continually shocked that people aren't more skeptical of any process that makes it profitable for the government to imprison people.

On the topic, there's two major reasons that a large companies don't want to bring back manufacturing to the US. Regulation and taxation. You can't dump waste in the river in the US for more than about 8 straight years without incurring the wrath of the EPA, but you can pay off a regulator in Vietnam cheaper than you can ensure that a textile plant doesn't kill all the fish. Labor was one of the reasons why manufacturers offshored, but shopping for tax havens while avoiding safety and pollution regulations was a big part of it too.

 

[ODB]

"People don't want to work" is a nonsense complaint.

Look, the fundamental premise of market economies (i.e. capitalism, even market socialism) is that equilibrium is achieved where the demand curve and the supply curve meet. Well labor is a supply, and jobs are the demand. If we have people who are available to work a job, but they're not working the job, then that means that to reach equilibrium employers need to increase wages or otherwise provide additional value until their demand meets the available supply. It's on par with saying "ammo costs too much because I can't buy a case of 5.56 for $200" well sorry buttercup, the price you're offering isn't enough to compete in the market.

Look I don't want to work at McDonald's anymore than anyone else here but if it paid better than bean counting I'd do it tomorrow. For the right price I'll lick your toilet seat clean. Supply and demand. If we wanted factories to open in the US, we would probably want to look at the wage stagnation in the last 60 years, rack those wages back up (would be between 12 and 18/hr starting out, depending on the job and area). You want to attract long-term employees, start talking employee-owned companies instead of public stock.

On the topic, there's two major reasons that a large companies don't want to bring back manufacturing to the US. Regulation and taxation. You can't dump waste in the river in the US for more than about 8 straight years without incurring the wrath of the EPA, but you can pay off a regulator in Vietnam cheaper than you can ensure that a textile plant doesn't kill all the fish. Labor was one of the reasons why manufacturers offshored, but shopping for tax havens while avoiding safety and pollution regulations was a big part of it too.

Not necessarily true. The market has not factored in social safety nets, human nature, etc, yet. And it can’t because they are not market-dependent.

An example: when the Zionist movement occurred there was a guy named Aaron Aaronson. When Jews were moving back to Isreal, he was instrumental in understanding hydrology to be able to water the desert. Fast forward a bit and the need for labor came about to manage the new crops, etc. . Many Arabs came to work, but Aaronson found that once the workers made *just* enough to make a living, they stopped work and went home for the day/week. This did not fulfill the labor demands, and it frustrated the living shit out of the farmers. The result is that more Jews filed in the gaps, making the money and increasing their lifestyles and success. This bred jealousy and contemptment between them and Arabs demanded that Jews pay some of their wealth to the local Arab sheiks, etc.

The point here is that even when incentivized by money and a ”better” life, some people still do not rise to the occasion because of the extra effort to get at the money or other factors. When money is not the be-all end-all, waving more of it doesn’t do much. If a person values their free time over a new car, money means nothing. They have all they need. We are in a world now where people have been convinced they can have it all - just like all those people they follow on Instagram. It’s hyper reality, and it’s false.

When a business cannot find workers (like a local Argentinian restaurant willing to pay $18 an hour), simply cannot tempt people out of their slumber because to them a shitty car, split rent, their cell phone and a few beers on Friday is all they need, the problem is beyond the ‘market” to solve. There are many factors working at once here. Creating a large number of people who are liabilities via social hammocks has no positive ending.

And the drought in workers isn’t in big business. It’s smaller business that can’t offer stocks or ownership or huge benefits plans.

 

[ETtikka]

people dont want to work because they make more money sitting at home, and they dont have to pay rent.

This is our current reality, unfortunately

 

[CorbLand]

Elections have consequences, unfortunately the dems have enabled the current generation of 18-30 yr olds to sit around. Plenty of able bodied young adults to fill the jobs out there, there are two kinds of countries, those that make useful products and those that don’t, we are fastly approaching the latter.

China is playing long ball and playing it well, dems are still playing checkers

Does the US not make useful products or do we just not produce them? The US has driven innovation around the world for the last 40 years. Just because we dont manufacture the actual product doesnt mean we dont make useful stuff.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Serious question. Why would I work in a factory when I can make 100K a year "playing" on computers?

You are talking about small segment of the work force, we still have high unemployment in certain urban areas that where traditionally built around MFG facilities. That work force is still there,

 

[roadrunner]

Not necessarily true. The market has not factored in social safety nets, human nature, etc, yet. And it can’t because they are not market-dependent.

What you're talking about is 'Utility' and is a large factor in describing the dynamics of the labor pool. Utility is the human nature aspect of it and it is in the tenets for the market, most people just don't know it. That's why people retire from employment. They've got the satisfaction they need out of working either "peaking" in a career field or saved enough to not have to work anymore. If they didn't achieve that satisfaction, they'd work until they croaked regardless of career "peaking" or saved income.

The point here is that even when incentivized by money and a ”better” life, some people still do not rise to the occasion because of the extra effort to get at the money or other factors. When money is not the be-all end-all, waving more of it doesn’t do much. If a person values their free time over a new car, money means nothing. They have all they need. We are in a world now where people have been convinced they can have it all - just like all those people they follow on Instagram. It’s hyper reality, and it’s false.


When a business cannot find workers (like a local Argentinian restaurant willing to pay $18 an hour), simply cannot tempt people out of their slumber because to them a shitty car, split rent, their cell phone and a few beers on Friday is all they need, the problem is beyond the ‘market” to solve. There are many factors working at once here. Creating a large number of people who are liabilities via social hammocks has no positive ending.

Your point about incentives is a bulls-eye. People respond to incentives and act accordingly. Those incentives are a mix. Some people are driven by large homes, flashy cars, and expensive vacations. Problem is, all that comes with a price, literally and figuratively. Other incentives are PTO, profit sharing, or remote work that don't necessarily come with that price.

Post #35 is absolutely correct (I hate saying "spot on" or "nailed it"). If employers want to have the ability to use the productive skills and knowledge of people, they'd better step it up a little and provide a higher "rent" for it. Money talks and bulls*@t, well, stays at home right now instead of walking. Wages have been stagnant for decades, but everything else has been on the rise. In the past they could get away with it because they took advantage of the 'American Dream'. Buy on credit and live above your means keeping people one paycheck away from bankruptcy. They couldn't afford to make any waves with bosses that sported the Magnum PI 'staches...