Breaking Rules, Tack, and Everything Else: My DIY Horseback Hunting Chronicle

[pbroski]

The thing about horses is that once you start something, you have to finish it, or like you say they will purposely be balky in order to avoid doing things they don't want to do. It is correct that when the horse refused to cross the river, you tried to do what you could to make him. It was unfortunate that you eventually give up however and lead him across.

You probably already know this, but with a horse you have to make the right thing easy, and the wrong thing hard. Getting off, and leading him across made the wrong thing easy for him. Once you started to ride him across, the right thing would have been to not stop until you got across by riding. However, pushing him too hard at one time could potentially cause him to get so pissed off that he would buck you off without warning, so definitely be cautious of that.

The river crossing situation would have been a good time to lunge him. Make him go around and around, change direction, stop, start, around and around, etc. Make refusing to cross the river the hard thing to do, and show him that you're the boss. After lunging for a while get back on and try crossing, if he refuses, lunge him again. If there enough room drive him into the water, stop him, get on in the water and get him across. Do it enough times, and you will get him across.

Another and maybe easier solution might be to use your riding horse for packing, and your pack horse for riding. It seems like the older horse is more eager to do what you want. That way also, the horse you're riding will be the slower of the two, so the pack horse would have no problem keeping up, so you wouldn't have to be dragging it along. Keep at it, I think you'll get it eventually.

 

[pbroski]

For mounting, I would start by have the pack horse's face on the left side of the rump of the riding horse. Stand on the left side of the riding horse, have the lead rope on the left side of your body and in your left hand along with the reins of the riding horse. With the lead line and reins in your left hand, grab either the riding horse's mane, or the saddle horn, left foot in stirrup, lift up and swing your right leg over the cantle of the saddle.

 

[rayporter]

that will work but i would put the packer on the off side. left hand holds reins on the riders neck while the right hand holds saddle horn and lead. both ways will allow you to swing your leg over without pinning the lead with your leg.

as you and see we can do this several ways.

and as stated dont ever tie hard and fast to saddle. a dally that you can turn loose is fine.. i will loop one turn on the horn and tuck the tail under my leg to free my right hand.

i took an old mule man to the high country once and he had awful animals. he was always tying the pack mule to his saddle. he got unhappy with me for telling him not to do this.

a year later he was heading out to the high country and the pack mule pulled his saddle over a mile from the truck. the two ran back to the truck and he had to walk back. his rifle was still on the saddle [underneath] as the two ran past me headed way past the truck.

 

[missjordan]

Ok I’m going to offer my 2 cents and hope it helps. I’m trying to do this on my phone not on the computer so it’s not going to be as pretty as I’d like it to be. Bear with me:



“Go about 500m and stop. *Visible Confusion* “How the heck do I mount while holding a pony rope in my hand?” Still have no clue. Try a new idea.”


~ Use your best judgement here and don’t over complicate things. I like putting the pony horse on the opposite side of where your mounting from but in front of the horses shoulder. If that’s not an option, you just put the lead rope hand in the same hand as your rein hand (left) and mount with your right hand.





“We go around a corner. Old dried up river bank. Boulders and rocks. Gelding goes “WTF” and starts to back up. Just like Dewey Cox: He don’t want none of that s***.

“Same issue as my last trip with the river, only today's issue is a boulder field. I thump on him with my hiking boots (Again, no spurs, because I forgot them). I slap with the glove. It gets some forward movement, but still can't get him to start doing one foot in front of the other.”

~ your reinforcing a MAJOR hurdle with your horse now that if he dances, intimidates you, that your going to get off. He wins. This is BAD. And will get your hurt. You will get pitched one of these days because you’re reenforcing bad behavior. What will happen is the nonsense and jigging is going to get worse and next thing you know he’ll be bucking to get you not to make him do this. This is a respect issue and a little bit of fear from the horse and you absolutely need to do more training at home for your own confidence and education before you tackle this on the trail again.

Suggestions on how to do this: work on some groundwork on teaching your horse to isolate the hips/ shoulder/ ribcage. I also like teaching them to back serpentines and circles as well. All of this translates under saddle. For you, start learning the art of the release. Teach both you and your horse a one rein stop. On the ground first, then under saddle. Then apply on the trail. Teach yourself how to use your legs/seat and steer around cones. Know how when you move your leg slightly forward it moves the shoulders independently , middle is ribs, slightly back is haunches. Learn to trot around said cones. And eventually canter large and smaller circles too while keeping the same tempo. This is harder than it sounds. You’ve mentioned spurs quite a few times and how you keep forgetting them. Spurs don’t matter at this point because you don’t know how to use them correctly anyways. And what i mean by that is your using them as a tool to “discipline” without having any thought beyond that. When you should be using the spur as a cue. There’s a time and a place for that.

When YOU get better confidence in the arena, then you’ll be way better off knowing how to work horses through these tantrums. How to apply leg, and when to stop. The jist of working a horse through a tantrum is making the wrong thing hard and the right thing easy. And what riders do is usually put them to work. Get him turning on the haunches, leg yielding, side passing. Trot those tight serpentines. Stop roll him back the other way, then approach the boulder field again and if the horse takes 3 more quiet steps farther than last time, you reward and let him rest.

it’s also the same tactic you use when they won’t load on the trailer too.




“Gelding knows we are heading home. He starts stepping out like crazy. Normally this makes me happy, but my mare can’t go that fast (Or won’t.) So my right arm is taking a beating holding on to this rope with a mare dragging butt at the end of it.

I don’t know if this is normal or not, but I try to get the gelding to slow a bit. It helps, but I keep having to bump the bit. “Easy, Easy”. He slows, then 5 steps later starts giving ‘er again.”


Remember the one rein stop you need to put on your horse at home??? Here you go. Teach him the that. Then next spring take him on some wet saddle blanket rides and one rein stop the shiz out of him on the way back to the trailer. He speeds up you stop. Every. Single. Time. Until you’re sick of spinning. (Don’t take the mare though) which also may lead you to seeing how herd bound either one of them is. Another fix for another time.

Far as the mare getting her face ripped off because she’s not walking too fast. This could be an issue also that needs correcting on her end. Maybe. Fix the gelding first before this bridge gets crossed.


If I’m being all honest, you really shouldn’t be hunting this year on the horses. Definitely not by yourself. Highly recommend investing in a helmet too. Head injuries happen all the time even to well educated horsemen. I’d strongly suggest you get with a local person and take weekly lessons at the minimum to get up to speed. It’s easy to get hurt and it will bite you in the ass soon. Take 2 multi day clinics a year from well renowned horsemen that travel the country. You will learn so much each time. Best investment ever you can make into your equine career. Hope this helps. Reach out with any more questions


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[450]

Thanks for all the information that was given to my question. I do plan to start out using my truck/trailer as a base camp until I get comfortable. I know it’s not the most ideal thing but you have to start somewhere plus killing something is just a bonus to me. Hopefully I can meet other people with the same interest and make new hunting partners(not real sure on that last part since we are moving to MS) but thinking positive.

As someone mentioned about multiple animals being expensive, needing bigger trailer and truck. I already have the truck and trailer for it plus where we are moving I will have plenty of pasture for them to graze year round. I bought the trailer to use on our move from AK to MS. I figured since I was going to need a horse trailer I would buy it instead of a enclosed trailer for our move.

 

[wyosteve]

I do what Ray mentioned about taking the lead rope for a 1/2 turn on the saddle horn and then tucking it under my right leg. Still keeps enough tension if the pack animal pulls back, but if things did go south, a simple lift of your leg will loosen it. I'll often then use my right hand behind me holding the lead rope to 'sense' what's going on behind me and keep the rope from getting under the tail of the riding animal.

 

[pacoalcracker]

missjordan, great advice. the 1 hr/wk for me and 1 hr/wk for my horse with a trainer has taught the both of us so much in the past 1.5-2 years and we are the better for it. time and money well spent. this was partially on the advice from the vet as far too many horses are ruined by uneducated/untrained horse owners. 95% of the time the problem isn't with the horse. the horse only knows what it was taught or experienced, good or bad.

 

[missjordan]

missjordan, great advice. the 1 hr/wk for me and 1 hr/wk for my horse with a trainer has taught the both of us so much in the past 1.5-2 years and we are the better for it. time and money well spent. this was partially on the advice from the vet as far too many horses are ruined by uneducated/untrained horse owners. 95% of the time the problem isn't with the horse. the horse only knows what it was taught or experienced, good or bad.

100% agree. When i was back into horses from after a 12 year break i took lessons up to 3x a week. But i was also getting back into showing too and was wanting to work on more technical things that a recreational rider doesn’t need. But it helped so much. The biggest blessing was it helped maintain a stricter standard on myself as a rider more consistently. Like working out with a personal trainer. I really loved the accountability


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[pbroski]

I bought my Percheron/QH mare from a horse trainer at 2 years old. She had undergone training by this trainer. Whenever I would reach out to rub her neck as a friendly gesture, she would get excited and back away like she was fearful. If she was tied with a halter and lead line to a solid anchor point like a tree, and the lead line tightened up, she would panic and pull back. I have since done my own training with her, and now she has no tendency to do either of those things. She is the calmest thing around. It's not hard to train a horse for hunting, if you know what you're doing.

 

[Wolf_trapper]

Don't let the naysayers slow you down. Your horses sound like every horse I've owned. They all have quirks or bad habits. Sounds like you know your limitations. It'll get easier and faster the more you do it. I'd also vote to ditch the wood panniers.

 

[pacoalcracker]

not a matter of slowing him down...only giving things to think about before he or the horse suffer injury. 20,000 riders per year end up with a severe injury from riding a horse(not taking into consideration the horses' injuries) and a person is 20x more likely to suffer a severe injury just being around horses, not even riding one, than someone not around them. Some eye-opening stats right there. you know how that happens? over-estimating your riding and horsemanship abilities, underestimating the dangers of a 1000 pound beast with his own mind and free-will, complacency with and around the horses, and the rider and horse getting into situations neither of them are prepared for. getting help from a qualified/experienced trainer or horseman when starting out is going to get him where he wants to be a lot quicker and most likely, a lot safer. A single trip to the ER with just a moderate injury would pay for an entire years worth of formal training and if you had to put your horse down because of your mistake that is much worse. I've only seen that done once to know I don't want to be in that position. Of course, that's if you care about your horse and it isn't just a tool.

 

[pacoalcracker]

quirks are Ok..you work around those if not a safety/health issue. Bad habits are not OK if they compromise safety/health or stand in the way of what you want to accomplish. You need to know how it rid your horse of those. The sooner the better. No reason to deal with a problematic horse. Most would rather sell them off than take the time/expense to correct it. It's sad, really. That's why so many otherwise good horses get passed around.

 

[yycyak]

ON TRAILERS
####

Usual comment: I don't know anything about anything. You probably don't want to listen to me.

So figured I'd post a few things on this, as yesterday I found myself lying on my back in a bunch of mud and snow, attempting to fix my trailer wiring. I say "Attempting" because trailer wiring is always broken. It is the Natural State Of Being for trailer wiring: completely knackered all the time.

I'm not going to be that guy that pulls a chatGPT and gives a bunch of pro/con bullet lists. I don't currently own a vast selection of horse trailers, and never will. I own one beat-up ancient rig that I bought a long time ago before prices went nuts. So I'll keep my comments limited to my experience around that trailer. If you want to know about other trailers, go talk to real ranchers.

This Is My Trailer

It's a 20ft bumper pull stock trailer, 5 1/2ft wide. It's from 1979, and rusty. It goes down the road, mostly. Sometimes.

What I like:

- These old skinny trailers (horses can't turn around in because the trailer is too skinny) are nifty in that they track exactly behind your truck. If you are trying to avoid potholes, or drive between ruts, these trailers will track exactly where your truck tires are. This is handy.

- Because they are skinny, you don't need any fancy towing mirrors or anything. Just your regular truck mirrors work fine. Hook up and go.

- Because it's 20ft stock trailer, you have either a four-horse straight load, or a 3 horse slant-load. More importantly you can be useful and help move a few cows for your rancher neighbour when they are short a trailer, and then you don't look as much like a dude, and might be invited to a branding or get some tips on how to deal with your dumb horses. (Note: Make sure your truck can handle 3-4 horses + tack, if you are considering filling it full of ponies and heading out. That's a heavy load for the mountains, and you want to be able to stop.)

- Dual axle: Critical (in my opinion) because if one of your tires goes flat, you don't have a catastrophic failure. Just pull off to the side of the road, and change the tire.

- Price was right: I don't like going into debt over hobbies. Financial stress is a thing. I didn't want a trailer payment hanging over my head. 80/20 etc. Something that works was all I cared about, and this thing has done splendidly, but sure isn't much for looks.

What I don't like:

- It's steel, so it's heavy to tow. And rusts bad.

- It's old, so everything breaks. Did I mention it's rusty?

- Stock trailers don't come with things like tie rings or tack rooms. I drilled holes and added U-bolts for tying. And added a divider for a ghetto tack room.

Picture during construction. It has plywood on the front now. And yes, that's a quad ramp, for you eagle-eyed types - Perfect fit.

- No door locks (usually). I solved this by drilling a hole through the man-door, and the rear swing door, and putting bike locks through those holes. Won't prevent a determined jerk, but keeps everything generally honest.

- These days some horses have never seen a skinny trailer - They are only used to big ones they can turn around in. The concept of backing out of a trailer is foreign to some horses, so you might need to do a bit of training to get them used to stepping up/down and backing out of blind stuff.

- Stock trailers are quite open. So they are loud, windy, and dusty for your horses. (Or can be). My tack and stuff gets dusty from the gravel roads.

How To Haul Horses

I'm not going there. This is like wading into an argument about religion: Everyone thinks they are right, and things get heated.

All I can say, as a complete amateur, is have good, non-slip footing for your critters. Beyond that, do what you want, but remember the saying "When in Rome..." Personally I just copied what I've seen working cowboys do, but I'm sure someone out there will yell at me for doing it wrong.

Driving Tips

Just a few things I figured were worth mentioning:

- Drive slow. Not ancient grandpa slow, but just generally slow. This keeps your horses happy, as sudden movements throw off their balance and stress them out. "Slow is smooth" as they say. And a horse going down because of crap driving is a nightmare that I hope to never deal with.

- Your gas mileage will suuuuuuuuck badly. And whatever your "Gas remaining" calculation on your dash says, its wrong, and will change its mind at the worst time. Carry a jerry can with you. (Ask me how I know.)

- Plan your route in advance. When you have a trailer on your rig, you can't turn around at the usual spots you can with just your truck. I'm paranoid about this, because I'm not really a trailer guy - I do it because I have to, not because I enjoy it. I'm super nerdy about scouting driving routes via google earth and other satellite maps. Look for flat, wide spots.

- In the same manner, consider just pulling off the forestry road into the ditch and park there (pick a flat spot), assuming you can do that in your locale. Lately I've taken to finding a trailhead location, and then just driving passed it until there's a decent flat spot in the ditch. I'll pull over and park/tack up there. Then there's no worries about turning radius, your jack bottoming out, etc. People may eyeball your rig, but to me that's less of a headache than getting stuck or having to back out of a nasty turnaround.

General Comments

Some random stuff in no particular order:

- A trailer box on top of your hitch is a Good Thing. Put stuff in there like electrical tape, wire cutters, zip ties, 30ft of 10ga wire, 2x tire pressure gauges, a scissor jack, sockets, and a big f****** breaker bar. This way you have all the gear you need to (1) temporarily fix your wiring, and (2) change a tire on the side of the road in a blizzard. See below.

- Your trailer lug nuts, due to the laws of the universe, are going to be on the trailer lugs REALLY right. Too tight for your truck's lug wrench. And unless you have a giant piece of old chain link fence post sitting around to use as a snipe, you're going to have a problem. Carry something heavy duty to deal with those lug nuts.

- Your wiring, again due to the laws of the universe, will always be wired incorrectly, on both your truck wiring harness, and your trailer wiring harness. So anticipate having to rewire everything. And, even more fun: When you go to your hardware store to get replacement wiring stuff, it wont matter what brand/make you buy - It's all from the same factory in China, and they are all coded incorrectly. All of them. Every. Single. One.

So, here's your wiring diagram for your truck, as you're crouched down by your rear bumper, with the plug cover lifted and pinching your fingers, and you're staring at the plug with a WTF look on your face.

Wire all your stuff this way, and you'll be good to go. (No, I will not negotiate on this. Wire things this way. I'm evening adding an attachment in case imgur pulls a photobucket in the future.)

- Old trailer wiring always breaks. Always. And usually at the worst times. In an effort to be kind to your future self, sometimes it's just easier to pick a day in late June/Early July, and intentionally take that day to rip out the janky wiring that the previous 8 owners scabbed on, and rewire the trailer properly yourself. Harbour Freight is your friend here, and a combination of a 4-way harness, plus some 10 or 12 gauge wires for your Brake and 12v/ACC wires go a really long way here.

And the best part here is that when THAT setup breaks, because it will, you will know how everything is configured. Oh, and you will only swear at yourself, instead of the 8 other owners that you KNOW purposefully rigged up those wires to break on you.

Best for Last - A Public Service Annoucement

I picked this up from another rokslider (I can't remember who, I'll edit this and add it, sorry amigo) and @PNWGATOR : Stash an emergency knife in your truck, that is ONLY ever to be used for cutting ropes.

If things get western and a horse goes down, you need to cut ropes fast. No screwing around wondering "Oh where did I put that thing again?" Have this knife in the same place, all the time, and stage it intentially for those "In case of fire, break glass" moments. And here's to hoping you'll never need to use it.

Anyway, that's all.

 

[yycyak]

Only comment I have here is statistically-speaking you're more likely to die driving to the trailhead in a vehicle accident vs. your horses killing you.

Horses are inherently dangerous critters. Backpack hunting in the mountains is also a rather dangerous thing to do. Know your limitations and choose what you're comfortable with, I suppose.

not a matter of slowing him down...only giving things to think about before he or the horse suffer injury. 20,000 riders per year end up with a severe injury from riding a horse(not taking into consideration the horses' injuries) and a person is 20x more likely to suffer a severe injury just being around horses, not even riding one, than someone not around them. Some eye-opening stats right there. you know how that happens? over-estimating your riding and horsemanship abilities, underestimating the dangers of a 1000 pound beast with his own mind and free-will, complacency with and around the horses, and the rider and horse getting into situations neither of them are prepared for. getting help from a qualified/experienced trainer or horseman when starting out is going to get him where he wants to be a lot quicker and most likely, a lot safer. A single trip to the ER with just a moderate injury would pay for an entire years worth of formal training and if you had to put your horse down because of your mistake that is much worse. I've only seen that done once to know I don't want to be in that position. Of course, that's if you care about your horse and it isn't just a tool.

 

[Pony Soldier]

My experience has been that over miles, your horse partner develops trust in you. There is a relationship that they will defer decisions to you and work with you. This isn't developed with a ride or two but with hours and hours and miles and miles.

I you get emotional - they get emotional. If you get irrational - they get irrational. They become a part of you over time. Even to the point of having a one person horse at times.

You have to earn their trust.

 

[rayporter]

All I can say, as a complete amateur, is have good, non-slip footing

- Drive slow. Not ancient grandpa slow, but just generally slow. This keeps your horses happy,

take these to the bank, everyone should be tied in a trailer on a back road at least once,

 

[Preston]

That’s not at all what he meant.

I guess I misunderstood. I thought he said he was face slapping the gelding to get it to cross the boulder field? How old is the gelding?

 

[yycyak]

Haha my man, I'm not the smartest out there. But even I can tell the ass end of a horse vs it's head.

Anyone who slaps their horse's head deserves to get what's coming to him.

No, I said I used my leather glove as a pseudo whip/quirt/crop/switch. Used via a slap on the bum with the intention of motivating forward movement. Note to self: riding gloves don't work so hot for this, as I discovered.

I thought I was pretty clear about the above, but just in case: don't slap your horse's head. That's generally mighty stupid, and not something I'd suggest doing. (I've seen jockeys do it to stop a bad rear, but that's way outside my lane.)


 

I guess I misunderstood. I thought he said he was face slapping the gelding to get it to cross the boulder field? How old is the gelding?

 

[Preston]

Haha my man, I'm not the smartest out there. But even I can tell the ass end of a horse vs it's head.

Anyone who slaps their horse's head deserves to get what's coming to him.

No, I said I used my leather glove as a pseudo whip/quirt/crop/switch. Used via a slap on the bum with the intention of motivating forward movement. Note to self: riding gloves don't work so hot for this, as I discovered.

I thought I was pretty clear about the above, but just in case: don't slap your horse's head. That's generally mighty stupid, and not something I'd suggest doing. (I've seen jockeys do it to stop a bad rear, but that's way outside my lane.)


 

Gotcha, makes sense.

One thing we have used to help with loading horses into a trailer is a flag with one person off to the side and put a little pressure on them and once they put one foot into the trailer back them out, and repeat until we get the other foor, and back them out. Keep repeating until they get both front feet and back them out. Once they load once, back them out again, reload and give them a handful of grain for a treat. It's worked great with foals through older horses that were trailer shy.

 

[Chase0109]

Sounds like you’re figuring it out as you go! I think it is often good to share the good and the bad so other can learn what to do or not to do in the future. That’s how we all learn through experience, rather personally or through other’s experiences.

I’m still learning plenty myself and don’t think I have enough experience to give others advise. But I will comment on one part and share a tip/personal experience that might be helpful.

“Problem: Pony doesn’t want to load.

Mare loads no problem. But today, the gelding decides he doesn’t want to. Normally it’s not a problem.

Again, lack of skills come into play: I’m 180lbs of office-fat and bones. The horse is 1000lbs. Do the math.

I try a bunch of the tricks I’ve seen in the past on youtube, but it just seems to be one of those days. In the end, I get him, but no idea how/why it worked.“

I had a similar experience with a new to me gelding I purchased in January. Nine-year-old experienced ranch horse. Loaded/unloaded untold amounts of times. Took him to a trailhead two hours from home in Texas. Had a nice ride did 6-7 miles everything went Perfect. Went to load him up in the trailer and you’d swear his feet were stuck in concrete when he got to the back of the trailer. I loaded and trailered him a handful of times before this with zero issue.

I tried everything I could think of. Getting back on him and working him a bunch, lunging him a bunch, etc. Same result every time. Walk right up to the back of the trailer and freeze without stepping in.
I probably had the same thought as you. How the **** do you get 1000 pound horse into a trailer when he doesn’t want to and your alone?

Being completely out of ideas, I decided to phone a friend. I called someone who is way more experienced with Horses than I’ll ever be. Told him what my issue was and hoped he might have an idea so I could at least get home and then work on fixing the issue.

So here’s the tip and what worked for me in a pinch. Friend suggested I take a long rope ( I had to tie two 12 foot lead ropes together) put the clip at the back of the trailer. Run the rope into the trailer through the side window and down the outside to the back door. I always keep a buggy whip in the trailer as I’ve seen it Come in handy with other people. Walk the horse up to the trailer as far as you can. When he stops clip the long lead up that you’ve run through the trailer onto his halter. Then you can put pressure on the halter while standing to the side of the horse and putting pressure from behind with the buggy whip if you need to. It’s impossible to put pressure on both ends of the horse when solo without this leverage.

It took very little pressure and the gelding jumped right in the trailer like nothing was ever wrong. Obviously not how you wanna do it every time lol. But saved my bacon in a pinch!

Moral of the story I now keep a 50 foot 3/8 inch check cord rope in the trailer along with the buggy whip. For emergency situations like that, because you just never know.

So my suggestion is put a long rope and Buggy whip in the tack room in case of emergency. Also here’s a book I would recommend picking up and reading. It’s cheap and it’ll save you from a lot of frustration in the future.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/147827607X/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?ie=UTF8&qid=&sr=

Chase