Bowhunting Accuracy: Arrow Speed vs. Weight

[dkime]

@Billy Goat #WKRoftheyear2025 ballot


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[Reburn]

@Billy Goat #WKRoftheyear2025 ballot


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Lotta year ahead of us. Surely there will be at least 2 better train wrecks.

 

[fmarrs3]

@Billy Goat How do you think about trade-offs with the other sometimes touted benefits of heavier arrows, such as resistance to wind drift and quiet-ness? These are certain kinds of "forgiveness" that heavier arrows offer, and should they be balanced with range / group size forgiveness of a lighter arrow?

 

[Billy Goat]

@Billy Goat How do you think about trade-offs with the other sometimes touted benefits of heavier arrows, such as resistance to wind drift and quiet-ness? These are certain kinds of "forgiveness" that heavier arrows offer, and should they be balanced with range / group size forgiveness of a lighter arrow?

I think a lot of arrows are more similar instead of more different. Arrows drift in the wind, only so much you can do to minimize it. Yeah, 27's with big fletching are going to drift a lot more in 10 mph than a .204 or a .165 shaft, but with hunting arrows, there's only so much you can do. I have tried small fletch, even in a 4 fletch and it's not a forgiving setup with a broadhead. You need at least a .4" tall vane at minimum in my opinion, that's where you are going to catch the wind drift. A heavier shaft is spending more time in flight, so I think it largely negates the benefits it has with wind resistance. Meaning, for a half second in the wind, a heavier shaft might drift 6" instead of 8", but it's in the air 10% longer say. I'm making those numbers up, can sit down later and actually work it out better.

But I don't notice huge differences with what would be a hunting setup.

 

[swampy14]

I just listened to the podcast and I had one question. Lighted nocks? to you try to incorporate them into your arrow build or just forget about them?

I sighted my bow in without them and when I installed it added about 10-15grs to the arrow. didn't think it was much of a difference but I'm seeing POI shift of about 2-3" low as close as 30yds.
Bow is a xpedition xscape 62lbs 28.5" draw
arrow weight unlighted~420gr
AW lighted nock~430gr

I think Im going to forget about the lighted nock or swap from 125gr points to 100gr to save the 20grs

 

[Billy Goat]

I just listened to the podcast and I had one question. Lighted nocks? to you try to incorporate them into your arrow build or just forget about them?

I sighted my bow in without them and when I installed it added about 10-15grs to the arrow. didn't think it was much of a difference but I'm seeing POI shift of about 2-3" low as close as 30yds.
Bow is a xpedition xscape 62lbs 28.5" draw
arrow weight unlighted~420gr
AW lighted nock~430gr

I think Im going to forget about the lighted nock or swap from 125gr points to 100gr to save the 20grs

I don't use lighted nocks. With most of them the nock fit is terrible. Only ones I'd use personally are Firenocks. They use Easton nocks, so it's easy to have your practice arrows with the correct nock.

10-15 grs shouldn't be noticeable that close. I'll go between 100 and 125 gr heads and it's 40 yards before there's much difference. I suspect it's more the way the lighted nocks are fitting your string differently than your regular nocks.

They can cause tuning changes with broadheads too. Nock fit is really important, but frequently over looked.

 

[flyfisher117]

This thread inspired me. I will have 2 dozen Victory 3DHV arrows delivered this week. I will shoot them for 3D season and Tac this year at 60ish pounds and see how I do. Hopefully they will shoot well enough without needing to dick with the bow/rest too much.

 

[swampy14]

I don't use lighted nocks. With most of them the nock fit is terrible. Only ones I'd use personally are Firenocks. They use Easton nocks, so it's easy to have your practice arrows with the correct nock.

10-15 grs shouldn't be noticeable that close. I'll go between 100 and 125 gr heads and it's 40 yards before there's much difference. I suspect it's more the way the lighted nocks are fitting your string differently than your regular nocks.

They can cause tuning changes with broadheads too. Nock fit is really important, but frequently over looked.

How would one determine proper nock fit

 

[Billy Goat]

How would one determine proper nock fit

First is making sure there's a snug snap onto the string, but not too tight. That just kinda takes experience. You don't want it to push on too easily, to where it can also pop off easily.

Then, I hold the bow with the string horizontal and allow the arrow to point down to the ground. The arrow should be able to swing a bit towards each limb pocket. If it can't you are getting nock pinch. Soft nocks inside your loop made of serving material really help with this.

If you can slide your nock up/down on string when it's nocked, your loop or soft nocks are too wide.

 

[Billy Goat]

First is making sure there's a snug snap onto the string, but not too tight. That just kinda takes experience. You don't want it to push on too easily, to where it can also pop off easily.

Then, I hold the bow with the string horizontal and allow the arrow to point down to the ground. The arrow should be able to swing a bit towards each limb pocket. If it can't you are getting nock pinch. Soft nocks inside your loop made of serving material really help with this.

If you can slide your nock up/down on string when it's nocked, your loop or soft nocks are too wide.

Here's a visual, cause it's probably easier to understand.
Nock seated, it pushed the string back 1/4-3/8" to seat, that's about what I think is appropriate.


Holding the string horizontal, arrow down.



This is about how far the arrow can point towards the top limb pocket.


This is arrow rotating down, pointing to the bottom limb pocket.


With nock seated, there's no up/down travel within the loop.
I do use Beiter nocks as I think their design is a little better for nock pinch, and they all fit exactly the same.

 

[swampy14]

Thanks for the visual. That helped me comprehend.

Well upon inspection, the lighted nocks I have are a tad slimmer than the factory black eagle nocks that the soft nocks were put in place for. So the lighted nocks have more up and down travel within the loop than the non lighted nocks.
That I believe is the culprit for the different POI with the different nocks

 

[SpotNStalker]

I loved the podcast! The amount of information on the need for heavy arrows and even a lot of manufacturers tailoring to it has certainly created some challenges for shops. Much of archery is about trade-offs and compromise to find the good middle ground. Arrow weight certainly falls into that category and one size certainly doesn't fit all. Joel Maxfield put out some great data and testing and came up with some good GPP (grains per pound) numbers that seem to be a good guideline. I vote for more archery content! This was a fun listen!