Boundary Waters Situation

[Thehillbillee]

Well it’s about ROI some one thinks it’s worthy of their effort . Why not let the EORs and preventive mitigation and remediation plans be drawn up and then we properly analyze the pros and cons . Are these not the facts you are asking for ?

Yes we need mines and by the hundreds to survive . Please regal me how you participate in this forum without being a benefactor of all the modern conveniences that these gross polluters offer you

Yeah, you’re probably right about letting the process play out, letting twin metals make their case to mine the minerals safely and trust the regulators to give that a thorough review. That’s how it should work anyway. I hope it will now that the moratorium is lifted.

But doesn’t seem like that’s what usually happens. Seems like the ultimate decision will be influenced more heavily by money and what’s politically expedient (and I’m talking about both sides). Does it ever really come down to the science? Are these companies ever really held responsible for their environmental damages?

As to your point about my hypocrisy, I know I rely on these minerals and that they have to be mined, but that doesn’t mean I need to support mining them everywhere or using any means necessary. I also rely on money, but I don’t get that money anywhere I’m able to or by any means necessary. There are right ways to get it and wrong ways. I work for it. Similarly I’m not convinced the twin metals mine is the right way to get these minerals.

Most of your assumptions about me also appear to be wildly inaccurate. I’ve never been to a bha pint night or even had a bha yuppie (nothing against them they just aren’t really a thing in my area). I usually drink Coors regular or plain old Jim beam.

You seem to be in favor of mining anywhere, anytime, and using any means necessary. I’m looking for more objective and nuanced opinions.

 

[Macintosh]

We got rid of them ALL yet it is worse than it’s ever been.

Im sorry but this is easily proven false. How old are you? If you’re within a few years of 60 years old then in your lifetime we literally had some of the worst environmental disasters in our backyards because there wasnt sufficient regulation. It was legal to dump all sorts of toxic crap, and/or no one did anything about it when industry literally killed and sickened entire neighborhoods. This is not hyperbole, this is very well documented fact.
Ever hear of PCB, kepone, love canal, Donora, the Cuyahoga River, or Buffalo Creek?
I can see why someone who didnt live through those events might think nothing has changed. If that’s you, google “shifting baseline syndrome”. Its a thing.
We have new issues emerging for sure that we need to deal with. Things evolve and things become problems that werent expected. But unless you want the river in your back yard to literally catch on fire, or your kids to be playing in cancer-causing toxic sludge that’s bubbling up in your front yard or to wake up to poison gas in your house, I suggest we have things a lot better than we did before all those pesky environmental regs didnt do anything for us.

Are the things we’ve addressed really no better or maybe even worse, or is it that we’ve discovered there are new problems to address? Big difference.

 

[Burnsie]

Im sorry but this is easily proven false. How old are you? If you’re within a few years of 60 years old then in your lifetime we literally had some of the worst environmental disasters in our backyards because there wasnt sufficient regulation. It was legal to dump all sorts of toxic crap, and/or no one did anything about it when industry literally killed and sickened entire neighborhoods. This is not hyperbole, this is very well documented fact.
Ever hear of PCB, kepone, love canal, Donora, the Cuyahoga River, or Buffalo Creek?
I can see why someone who didnt live through those events might think nothing has changed. If that’s you, google “shifting baseline syndrome”. Its a thing.
We have new issues emerging for sure that we need to deal with. Things evolve and things become problems that werent expected. But unless you want the river in your back yard to literally catch on fire, or your kids to be playing in cancer-causing toxic sludge that’s bubbling up in your front yard or to wake up to poison gas in your house, I suggest we have things a lot better than we did before all those pesky environmental regs didnt do anything for us.

Are the things we’ve addressed really no better or maybe even worse, or is it that we’ve discovered there are new problems to address? Big difference.

Lake Erie, Chicago River are examples. Those two bodies of water were worse than your septic tank. Concerted efforts to clean them up have been a resounding success - Lake Erie is now a top walleye fishery, and you can actually eat your catch. Things are a lot better today than back when industry was just allowed (or did illegally) to pour toxic crap into our water ways. It's all relative to where your starting point is.

 

[wind gypsy]

I cant recall, do we have any folks that are for this mine? Seems like lots of people that want to air grievances on BHA, enviros, renewables, democrats, etc but not actually champion this mine.

 

[Yoteassasin]

I cant recall, do we have any folks that are for this mine? Seems like lots of people that want to air grievances on BHA, enviros, renewables, democrats, etc but not actually champion this mine.

It is as unreasonable to champion this mine as it is to be adamantly against it .
I am however a big champion for responsible domestic mining, processing , manufacturing

 

[wind gypsy]

It is as unreasonable to champion this mine as it is to be adamantly against it .

Why?

 

[Yoteassasin]

Im sorry but this is easily proven false. How old are you? If you’re within a few years of 60 years old then in your lifetime we literally had some of the worst environmental disasters in our backyards because there wasnt sufficient regulation. It was legal to dump all sorts of toxic crap, and/or no one did anything about it when industry literally killed and sickened entire neighborhoods. This is not hyperbole, this is very well documented fact.
Ever hear of PCB, kepone, love canal, Donora, the Cuyahoga River, or Buffalo Creek?
I can see why someone who didnt live through those events might think nothing has changed. If that’s you, google “shifting baseline syndrome”. Its a thing.
We have new issues emerging for sure that we need to deal with. Things evolve and things become problems that werent expected. But unless you want the river in your back yard to literally catch on fire, or your kids to be playing in cancer-causing toxic sludge that’s bubbling up in your front yard or to wake up to poison gas in your house, I suggest we have things a lot better than we did before all those pesky environmental regs didnt do anything for us.

Are the things we’ve addressed really no better or maybe even worse, or is it that we’ve discovered there are new problems to address? Big difference

Well I’m not close to that age . And I can’t think of a single catastrophic event in my memory within 500 miles of where I live .
“Conservation” and “eco-friendly” initiatives have been in place for 50+ years yet it keeps getting worse . Riddle me that . There are more mlpa’s , more refuges , more wilderness areas , more national monuments , yet the downward slide continues .

 

[Yoteassasin]

Why?

Because there is no evidence to base any opinion on . Only posturing and bleeting

 

[littlebigtine]

It is as unreasonable to champion this mine as it is to be adamantly against it .
I am however a big champion for responsible domestic mining, processing , manufacturing

We aint Swiss bro,

We

 

[2531usmc]

Lake Erie, Chicago River are examples. Those two bodies of water were worse than your septic tank. Concerted efforts to clean them up have been a resounding success - Lake Erie is now a top walleye fishery, and you can actually eat your catch. Things are a lot better today than back when industry was just allowed (or did illegally) to pour toxic crap into our water ways. It's all relative to where your starting point is.

Yes, all true.

But it’s also true that these same industries paid high school graduates enough money to: get married, buy a house, have kids, and have mom stay home…..all before they turned 25.

No easy solutions……

 

[Macintosh]

Well I’m not close to that age . And I can’t think of a single catastrophic event in my memory within 500 miles of where I live .

That is precisely my point. You dont remember any because there may not have been any. Your baseline condition that you compare to is already pretty clean—not what it was. (And no idea where you even are, so…) Hence why I suggested googling “shifting baseline syndrome”. Your baseline is different from mine because I remember, and you werent there to remember. Its not a inock against you, just meant to point out that if you think its worse now, you need to ask yourself “worse than WHAT”. You have to compare to what it was like in say 1960, not what you remember it as.

“Conservation” and “eco-friendly” initiatives have been in place for 50+ years yet it keeps getting worse . Riddle me that . There are more mlpa’s , more refuges , more wilderness areas , more national monuments , yet the downward slide…

Yep. Old issues pop up in unexpected places, new issues arise, new technologies that didnt exist 20 or 40 or 60 years ago bring new problems, and there are a heck of a lot more people generating all the things people generate than there were 50-60 years ago.