Boundary Waters Situation

[Jake Larsen]

*laughs in lifelong industrial distribution career*

Society always loudly condemns visible resource extraction projects while consuming resource-heavy digital services whose supply chains require the very mining being denounced.

Many of those opposed to projects like these are equally guilty of necessitating the economic reality and feasibility through their digital consumption. Using things like the internet, social media, OnX, Google Earth, Garmin GPS, etc. all require vast amounts of data which must be stored somewhere after being built somewhere. Copper, nickel, and cobalt all play heavy into the infrastructure buildout of these services.

The entire world is scrambling like mad to capitalize and secure every source possible at all costs with the AI race ramping exponentially year over year.

I am opposed to the location selection of this project, but this is the reality and consequence of all these digital tools that everyone, including hunters and fishermen, depend on these days.

These are but the first of many projects that will forever reshape the environment for the worse in the coming years. If you saw the boardroom forecasts of many of these companies involved in these types of projects, their projections and resource inputs increase exponentially year over year for the next two decades.

Buckle up boys, it’s not going to get any better as many of these projects are quickly labeled mandatory for national security once approved. Very hard to stop after that point short of all out revolution or a miracle.

Nailed it. The frustrating thing about this is that there’s very sound logic that securing these resources IS a national security issue. Two things can be true at once…there’s no doubt that inside connects will be leveraged by politicians securing some of these contracts. But it’s also true that rare earth mineral/metal independence is going to be just as critical as energy independence in the short/medium term future.

Leaves me very torn as an American who believes America should be securing American interests. But also someone who loves pristine and wild places.

It’s real easy to say “not here!” Which tends to be my first reaction also. But if not here, then where? We have to mine where the minerals/metals exist, or else we have to let other countries do it for us. Word on the street is that Department of War is about to spend a LOT of money on this problem, since raw material is their bottleneck for rebuilding our stockpiles.

That being said, if what others have said is true, and a Chilean company is lined up for this particular mine with plans to smelt in China, then the argument of securing the supply chain seems more like a scare tactic in order to get public support.


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[CJ19]

Nailed it. The frustrating thing about this is that there’s very sound logic that securing these resources IS a national security issue. Two things can be true at once…there’s no doubt that inside connects will be leveraged by politicians securing some of these contracts. But it’s also true that rare earth mineral/metal independence is going to be just as critical as energy independence in the short/medium term future.

Leaves me very torn as an American who believes America should be securing American interests. But also someone who loves pristine and wild places.

It’s real easy to say “not here!” Which tends to be my first reaction also. But if not here, then where? We have to mine where the minerals/metals exist, or else we have to let other countries do it for us. Word on the street is that Department of War is about to spend a LOT of money on this problem, since raw material is their bottleneck for rebuilding our stockpiles.

That being said, if what others have said is true, and a Chilean company is lined up for this particular mine with plans to smelt in China, then the argument of securing the supply chain seems more like a scare tactic in order to get public support.


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I am in way endorsing or passing judgement on this mine. I actually don't like this mine either. I am not attacking you personally but your way of thinking is continually repeated here and amongst the conservation and hunting community.

Do you know why stuff is smelted in China? Because most of the smelters in the USA are closed for environmental reasons and it cant be smelted in the US. Do you think they should built a smelter next to the mine so they can say its smelted here?

 

[Idaboy]

Used to loosing in the nfc championship game

Actually it’s more like losing 4 superbowls. That’s hard to get used to as well

 

[Idaboy]

Live in an ice cube where the voting majority lack reasoning and morality?

Sure, sign me up. I've always like the Vikings.

It ain’t for the weak but it’s a heavy cross we bare !

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Do you know why stuff is smelted in China? Because most of the smelters in the USA are closed for environmental reasons and it cant be smelted in the US. Do you think they should built a smelter next to the mine so they can say its smelted here?

If the reason we need to extract it is for national security reasons, we aren’t going to have the luxury of not having smelters here.

 

[CJ19]

If the reason we need to extract it is for national security reasons, we aren’t going to have the luxury of not having smelters here.

could be. My point was more along the lines if people are concerned about the environment, stating the reason a mining project should not move forward is because the resource is being smelted somewhere else may not have the effect those environmentalists think. Because if the price of the resources gets high enough, the company just might say...."you know what conservation community....you are right. We will build a smelter next to the boundary waters mine to address your concerns about those materials being smelted somewhere else."

 

[rbloom761]

I feel that if this mining is a national security, then why is it open to foreign companies of any kind. We as a country won't benefit in any way while giving away our precious minerals. It's heartbreaking, once that ecosystem is changed we will never get it back.

 

[Idaboy]

If anybody thinks clean water is a priority, they are as naive as a baby. The water in my home state is polluted like never before and gettting worse, and we have filthy waterways and health issues to prove it. NEITHER political party has the courage to address the obvious causes, and both are in bed with the big ag cartel. Soil and water conservation are a joke in Iowa and the majority of row crop intensive areas in this country.

People's selective outrage is hillarious. On one hand they play chicken little over a mining project that might impact an uninhabited wilderness area, that they may never visit, assuming the project cannot be executed safely. At the same time the same people turn a blind eye to water pollution already impacting MILLIONS of Americans in the Mississippi and Missiouri river watersheds.

That’s a great point, we have a lot of people “downstream” of Minnesota, especially that it’s in 3 watersheds. But even more reason to really understand the risks, obviously nothing can be zero risk. The long term water treatment is needed for DECADES or indefinitely after Sulfide related mining. So who pays for that when the company leaves, or goes bankrupt.

I totally hear the “national security “ argument but honestly it seems you could slap that label on any natural or scarce resource. Do we actually know how much of the metals/materials in this case will stay in the US? vs this Chilean company just selling wherever on international market? It just seems unclear how that helps “security”.

The economics of all this seems to be without keeping the petal to the metal, we’ll lose out, but it doesn’t seem the US is losing as one of the richest Nations in the world, despite not tapping this resource. I probably need to learn more about what “safety” the company really proposes…… can they do just a smaller mine first as a trial/proof of concept? If they were running a smaller operation cleanly for 10-15 yrs, I think many of us might be more accepting…….My understanding was they plan “dry stacking “ and not needing a big water dam to keep s$&t from getting out. We have the Brule/Devils kettle up there so it just makes you wonder where stuff can really go to “beneath the surface”.

None of this is straightforward

 

[Poser]

Is there credible evidence that this is actually a national security issue? I seem to recall back in 2025 that 50% tariffs on kitchen cabinets and vanities were framed as a “national security” issue. I’m not saying it’s not by default, but I suppose it’s would be helpful to understand the facts around national security aspect, particularly in the age of matters of national security applying to kitchen cabinets.

 

[Jake Larsen]

I am in way endorsing or passing judgement on this mine. I actually don't like this mine either. I am not attacking you personally but your way of thinking is continually repeated here and amongst the conservation and hunting community.

Do you know why stuff is smelted in China? Because most of the smelters in the USA are closed for environmental reasons and it cant be smelted in the US. Do you think they should built a smelter next to the mine so they can say its smelted here?

In short, yes we should. If we’d spent the last 30+ years putting our best and brightest to the task of solving the “dirty processing” issues, instead of outsourcing the capability, I think we’d be having a very different discussion. And I think from a national security standpoint, we absolutely need to close that gap. We rely on these raw materials to sustain nearly every aspect of modern life. It’s high time we solve the problems of obtaining and processing them in a responsible manner.

I live about an hour away from what used to be one of the largest copper smelters in the world. I’d love to see an effort to get it going again in a manner that’s environmentally responsible.

Just do a quick search of “cobalt mines in the Congo”. That’s an extreme example, but it’s the only alternative to what I’m saying. In a perfect world, we wouldn’t need any rare earth minerals, or oil, or metals. But it ain’t a perfect world.


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[CJ19]

In short, yes we should. If we’d spent the last 30+ years putting our best and brightest to the task of solving the “dirty processing” issues, instead of outsourcing the capability, I think we’d be having a very different discussion. And I think from a national security standpoint, we absolutely need to close that gap. We rely on these raw materials to sustain nearly every aspect of modern life. It’s high time we solve the problems of obtaining and processing them in a responsible manner.

I live about an hour away from what used to be one of the largest copper smelters in the world. I’d love to see an effort to get it going again in a manner that’s environmentally responsible.


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I respect the response. Not sure I want them to build a smelter up wind of my little slice of paradise, but I think we will probably see some processing facilities come online in the USA at some point.

 

[KurtR]

Actually it’s more like losing 4 superbowls. That’s hard to get used to as well

I’m a Vikings fan to so I feel then pain .

 

[boperleb]

It's going to come from somewhere, WE are a consuming society, agriculture, water, lumber, ore... why are we not responsible for the resuilts of our own consumption? The "not in my backyard " attitude just pushes the mining somewhere else while we still greedily consume... The mining companies are producing what we happily pay them for. The ore may go overseas but it all seems to come back to our shores as product. We just don't want to look at the end result of our consumerism. The problem is the demand we as a population place on a limited supply of natural resources. The battle rages whether it's over fracking, logging, corporate farming or mining. Is mining near the BWCAW short sighted, sure it is, but we live in a short sighted society. We scream to protect the environment then hop on a jet plane to vacation in an exotic port all the while dumping loads of carbon into the atmosphere, Everyone is guilty of environmental damage. Let's all go out and plant some trees!

 

[Jpsmith1]

They (of course) have set up the mine under a subsidiary that can simply be bankrupted should their pollution mitigation attempts go sideways, thus avoiding the expense of a pesky cleanup. Since they all seem to leak, it would be nice if they could prove it won't before trying in this setting. Mines of this type have been in arid environments; in the BWCA watershed we have a vast resource of some of the cleanest fresh water in the world, and it would be a hell of a place to get it wrong. The pollution corridor would go west along the border through Rainy Lake, Lake of the Woods, lake Winnipeg and to Hudson's Bay...almost 1000 miles.

This is the biggest problem.

Corporate shenanigans to reap all the profit and outsource the costs and consequences to someone else.

IMO, those responsible should be put up against a handy wall, given a blindfold and a cigarette.

 

[Will_m]

Theres less deer hunters afield today in Idaho (and in a lot if western states) then back in the 90s. Whats been exploited?

Deer pop is down.

That is mother natures doing, and human encroachment on winter range, human impact on migration connectivity, lion and wolf predation.

You think the boogey man is your neighbors kid trying to get into hunting?

What a joke? Am I reading this right?

Once again, tripping over dollars to pick up nothing.

It’s stepping over dollars to pick up dimes. It describes a situation where the return is less than what it costs. So, you’re using it wrong.

I don’t think you are right on number of hunters. Go pull the stats. And then, even if this were true (which it’s probably not), you are correlating number of issued licenses with man-days afield. Not illogical, but wrong. Especially when you are waving it around the same way a child might wave a loaded gun. You don’t fully understand what you have.

 

[northdakotacanoe]

will probably physically protest if it comes down to it. i hate to see the congo get the short end of the cobalt war. but not in my backyard, the bwca is sacred.

 

[Yoteassasin]

It's going to come from somewhere, WE are a consuming society, agriculture, water, lumber, ore... why are we not responsible for the resuilts of our own consumption? The "not in my backyard " attitude just pushes the mining somewhere else while we still greedily consume... The mining companies are producing what we happily pay them for. The ore may go overseas but it all seems to come back to our shores as product. We just don't want to look at the end result of our consumerism. The problem is the demand we as a population place on a limited supply of natural resources. The battle rages whether it's over fracking, logging, corporate farming or mining. Is mining near the BWCAW short sighted, sure it is, but we live in a short sighted society. We scream to protect the environment then hop on a jet plane to vacation in an exotic port all the while dumping loads of carbon into the atmosphere, Everyone is guilty of environmental damage. Let's all go out and plant some trees!

Please don’t just plant trees . That lunacy created the wests fire catastrophe

 

[Yoteassasin]

will probably physically protest if it comes down to it. i hate to see the congo get the short end of the cobalt war. but not in my backyard, the bwca is sacred.

The Congo? Hello straw man !

Is the BWCA more or less sacred than say … (insert everyone’s favorite place here )
Would it be ok to do this in your second favorite place to go ?
This NIMBY attitude is probably the shortest sighted argument t of the last 5 pages .
Ok, we get it you don’t like it what is the solution .

 

[wowzers]

The big brains in DC have painted us in a corner. Here’s a report that “88% of DoD’s critical mineral supply chains are exposed to Chinese influence”.

China’s rare-earth mineral squeeze will hit the Pentagon hard

More than 78 percent of the U.S. military’s weapons rely on Chinese materials, a new report calculates.

www.defenseone.com

 

[wowzers]

Do you know why stuff is smelted in China? Because most of the smelters in the USA are closed for environmental reasons and it cant be smelted in the US. Do you think they should built a smelter next to the mine so they can say its smelted here?

We can’t even process our own tweakers stripped copper wire because all the secondary (scrap) copper facilities have closed.