Boundary Waters Situation

[BrokenArrow]

Bogey man bogey man bag orange man spen money on my 501c .. check got it . You mean the same social media clown that have exploited hunting for personal and monetary gain ? The same ones that had armys of flatbill Tacoma drivers destroy the Idaho otc system and the Nevada fcfs system ?

You actually think your "party" will save you? They will sell, and have proven to sell, your rights out in a heartbeat to pay back their monetary debt, political suicide, and immoral depths. Just because you cannot see past your own lifespan. I can assure you, Sen Mike Lee can see past his. And that's just on example of what some people are fighting.

 

[dr.mooseknuckles]

That's exactly how people get banned

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

Noted.

 

[Yoteassasin]

You actually think your "party" will save you? They will sell, and have proven to sell, your rights out in a heartbeat to pay back their monetary debt, political suicide, and immoral depths. Just because you cannot see past your own lifespan. I can assure you, Sen Mike Lee can see past his. And that's just on example of what some people are fighting.

Again stawman on overdrive . Take a look in the mirror please . I have not reference a party and Infact I do see past my lifetime and dont want my kids subjugated by rat eastern communists. I want the western conservation model to survive . I want to ensure public lands remain “accessible “

It is however imminently important that we manage our public lands as a resource . There are lands designated as un touchable. To that I say good . For the rest they should be of benefit to all the citizens of this republic

 

[Yoteassasin]

Grok:

Freeport-McMoRan’s Sierrita Mine — Green Valley, Arizona (active/ongoing)

This is one of the most documented cases of a currently operating copper mine polluting a watershed. Seepage from the 3,600-acre tailings pond at the Sierrita mine sent a plume of contaminated groundwater toward the retirement community of Green Valley, causing drinking water wells to record high levels of sulfates. The collection system failed to capture the contaminated mine seepage completely, and public water supply wells serving Green Valley were affected by the sulfate contamination. Freeport-McMoRan entered into a mitigation agreement with Arizona regulators as a result.
Freeport-McMoRan’s Sierrita Mine — Green Valley, Arizona (active/ongoing)
This is one of the most documented cases of a currently operating copper mine polluting a watershed. Seepage from the 3,600-acre tailings pond at the Sierrita mine sent a plume of contaminated groundwater toward the retirement community of Green Valley, causing drinking water wells to record high levels of sulfates. The collection system failed to capture the contaminated mine seepage completely, and public water supply wells serving Green Valley were affected by the sulfate contamination. Freeport-McMoRan entered into a mitigation agreement with Arizona regulators as a result.

Look it up, there are several contemporary copper and zinc mines in Arizona that have contaminated drinking water wells and depleted the aquifers.

Your gork needs some qc . The phosphate / sulphate plume was discovered in 1980 and has been under a mitigation order since the early 2000s
do you believe we should get rid of all mines?
How about oil? Where would you get your gortex or polyester ?
What is your play ? Destroy the us manufacturing and mineral extraction so we are defenseless in a world war … oh wait that’s been going on for the last 30 years .
I’m not buying it

 

[Macintosh]

Why hasnt the bigger bigger picture implication of using the congressional review act come up on this? Thats a major part of the reason people are making such a big deal about this.

 

[Thehillbillee]

I’m really having a hard time understanding this one. I just don’t see how this decision isn’t short-sighted and narrow-minded. We take clean water for granted. There’s nothing more critical than clean water. If we don’t have that we’re cooked.

These politicians will no doubt benefit from this decision either politically, financially, or both. But they’re taking a small, short-term, and even selfish gain and trading something much more valuable that belongs to us all. The least they could do would be to maximize the benefit to the American people. But it doesn’t appear that they made any effort to do so.

Most of them will be history (probably underground themselves) when this thing goes sideways.

 

[KurtR]

What is the date the mine is supposed to go online?

 

[Thehillbillee]

What is your play ? Destroy the us manufacturing and mineral extraction so we are defenseless in a world war … oh wait that’s been going on for the last 30 years .
I’m not buying it

How does the twin metal mine help US manufacturing and mineral extraction?

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I’m really having a hard time understanding this one. I just don’t see how this decision isn’t short-sighted and narrow-minded. We take clean water for granted. There’s nothing more critical than clean water. If we don’t have that we’re cooked.

These politicians will no doubt benefit from this decision either politically, financially, or both. But they’re taking a small, short-term, and even selfish gain and trading something much more valuable that belongs to us all. The least they could do would be to maximize the benefit to the American people. But it doesn’t appear that they made any effort to do so.

Most of them will be history (probably underground themselves) when this thing goes sideways.

If anybody thinks clean water is a priority, they are as naive as a baby. The water in my home state is polluted like never before and gettting worse, and we have filthy waterways and health issues to prove it. NEITHER political party has the courage to address the obvious causes, and both are in bed with the big ag cartel. Soil and water conservation are a joke in Iowa and the majority of row crop intensive areas in this country.

People's selective outrage is hillarious. On one hand they play chicken little over a mining project that might impact an uninhabited wilderness area, that they may never visit, assuming the project cannot be executed safely. At the same time the same people turn a blind eye to water pollution already impacting MILLIONS of Americans in the Mississippi and Missiouri river watersheds.

 

[handwerk]

JJ the BWCA is in my back yard and not far at all from lots of other folks.
Just think about all the super fund clean up sites around this country, we don't need any more.

 

[Thehillbillee]

If anybody thinks clean water is a priority, they are as naive as a baby. The water in my home state is polluted like never before and gettting worse, and we have filthy waterways and health issues to prove it. NEITHER political party has the courage to address the obvious causes, and both are in bed with the big ag cartel. Soil and water conservation are a joke in Iowa and the majority of row crop intensive areas in this country.

People's selective outrage is hillarious. On one hand they play chicken little over a mining project that might impact an uninhabited wilderness area, that they may never visit, assuming the project cannot be executed safely. At the same time the same people turn a blind eye to water pollution already impacting MILLIONS of Americans in the Mississippi and Missiouri river watersheds.

I’m a neighbor in SD and I agree about the ag runoff being a huge concern. l’ve also been to the BWCA and plan to continue to visit occasionally. The outrage I feel is because this is a still unspoiled body of water. I’d like to keep it that way. I’d guess we don’t have many of those left. And I’d also like to clean up the waterways we’ve already contaminated.

 

[realunlucky]

I'm posting this reminder on political threads please give it a read - https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/political-threads.175665/

I'm tired of every thread turning into a political mud flinging contest.

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

 

[Yoteassasin]

How does the twin metal mine help US manufacturing and mineral extraction?

It ads domestic supply and incentivizes domestic processing and infrastructure upgrades to do so .
…. Now kind sir please tell me how it “hurts” it

 

[Thehillbillee]

It ads domestic supply and incentivizes domestic processing and infrastructure upgrades to do so .
…. Now kind sir please tell me how it “hurts” it

Never said it would hurt it.

If it results in investments in domestic processing that’s great. But it’s not gonna happen on its own. Our leaders would need to make that a part of the deal with this foreign company first.

 

[littlebigtine]

Your gork needs some qc . The phosphate / sulphate plume was discovered in 1980 and has been under a mitigation order since the early 2000s
do you believe we should get rid of all mines?
How about oil? Where would you get your gortex or polyester ?
What is your play ? Destroy the us manufacturing and mineral extraction so we are defenseless in a world war … oh wait that’s been going on for the last 30 years .
I’m not buying it

this is a valid question.

Im gonna reiterate CHILEAN mining company.

Ore to be sent to CHINA to be smelted.

Im all for responsible mining by american companies in places where the fallout of the operation can better be contained and protected.

Arid environments, far away from major watersheds, far away from sensitive ecosystems.

So underground in the desert.

 

[CJ19]

I know a lot of environmentally-minded people are really upset about this mining project. Please keep in mind a lot of mining is coming about because the American (and global) public was told renewable and full grid electrification was a slam dunk for the environment. That led to legislation for rapid transition to renewable energy sources reliant on mined material in a relatively short time period. Such a demand spike often makes pursuit of resource deposits more appealing despite a wide variety of risks including environmental liability.

Many of the organizations and conservation voices against this mine have had plenty of opportunity to identify an increase in mining in sensitive areas as a likely out come of those mandated and rapid energy transitions, but have not even asked basic questions in public venues/shows or brought it up robustly with the public. It is more than time to realize that aggressive mining to meet spiking mineral demand is a direct consequence of a rapid net zero transition.

I am not opposed to renewable or electric stuff but people really need to think about time frame and scale of rolling out those rapid energy transitions if they are concerned about mining. unfortunately, I think that ship has largely sailed, but there is always a way to make positive changes. It is likely this mine and the one in AK wont be the last the way things are headed.

 

[The Ri Guy]

*laughs in lifelong industrial distribution career*

Society always loudly condemns visible resource extraction projects while consuming resource-heavy digital services whose supply chains require the very mining being denounced.

Many of those opposed to projects like these are equally guilty of necessitating the economic reality and feasibility through their digital consumption. Using things like the internet, social media, OnX, Google Earth, Garmin GPS, etc. all require vast amounts of data which must be stored somewhere after being built somewhere. Copper, nickel, and cobalt all play heavy into the infrastructure buildout of these services.

The entire world is scrambling like mad to capitalize and secure every source possible at all costs with the AI race ramping exponentially year over year.

I am opposed to the location selection of this project, but this is the reality and consequence of all these digital tools that everyone, including hunters and fishermen, depend on these days.

These are but the first of many projects that will forever reshape the environment for the worse in the coming years. If you saw the boardroom forecasts of many of these companies involved in these types of projects, their projections and resource inputs increase exponentially year over year for the next two decades.

Buckle up boys, it’s not going to get any better as many of these projects are quickly labeled mandatory for national security once approved. Very hard to stop after that point short of all out revolution or a miracle.

 

[Macintosh]

Why hasnt the bigger bigger picture implication of using the congressional review act come up on this? Thats a major part of the reason people are making such a big deal about this.

Again, did not see a single post about this. It is perhaps the biggest single reason why conservation and environmental groups are making such a big deal about this. Yes, this mine matters. We dont have a lot of relatively pristine resources left and they are always under-valued; AND the particular type of mining in question has an extremely consistent and poor track record of environmental problems and shirked cleanup responsibility; AND the legal and regulatory structure folks are relying on to keep the project between the yellow lines has now been significantly defunded and politicized.

BUT perhaps the larger issue is that the congressional review act— the law that allows Congress to overturn a agency rule or regulation—was not written or envisioned to be used this way, so it has requirements within it that create some major problems regardless of what side of this issue you are on. The CRA is only subject to a simple majority in congress so its highly susceptible to partisan issues, and most importantly it mandates that once a rule or plan is rescinded IT CANNOT BE REPLACED WITH ONE THAT IS “SUBSTANTIALLY SIMILAR” TO THE RESCINDED RULE. So, if they were rescinding an entire management plan, not just one decision about a mine, it would mean that the other 99% of that management plan—built on quite literally decades of public input and work that IS working well and ISNT contentious—would also be tossed out the window because THAT portion of the plan ALSO cannot be replaced with anything “substantially similar”. On top of that my understanding is that its a bit ambiguous or unsettled whether similar provisions in other management plans would then be rendered unusable even for other locations with different issues, ie rescinding something using the CRA in MN, based on how the law is written, could have implications for management plans in Az or Wy. So we’re potentially fighting over a small % of a 10-year or 20-year plan, but by tossing out one small “bad part” we also take every single “good part” that IS working well, and prevent us from using that in the future, at a minimum for that plan, but potentially country-wide. It’s the very definition of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
So in this case specifically, its not an entire management plan, its the 20-year moratorium on mining. BUT the “significantly similar” clause of the CRA is still in full effect, so by doing this it has potentially prevented us from EVER having a mining moratorium similar to this in the boundary waters should that be deemed necessary in the future, and possibly anywhere else.
So, while Im not hyper-knowledgeable about the minutia of this^^, I think its fair to say that the legal water is pretty muddy and unsettled around using the CRA in this manner because its never been used this way before, and people have been fighting its use for issues like this specifically because of the “substantially similar” clause in that law is very likely to cause some massive unintended consequences down the road by literally preventing us from using the SUCCESSFUL management strategies we have.
Im all fine with folks disagreeing and discussing this mine in this place, but I think to have a real intelligent discussion the use of the CRA and the implications of the “significantly similar” portion of the CRA need to be included front and center in that debate.

 

[2531usmc]

Trump Devotion Syndrome is such a fascinating malady to witness in real time! It sickens me it even permeates the hunting and fishing sites I frequent. I am just thankful that the red hat, low IQ, science denying, illogical fat POS cry baby group do not frequent the backcountry I roam!

Science denying like the “science” we were told about Covid?

 

[realunlucky]

Stay on topic. This is the last warning

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk