Boots - are we doing it wrong

[jpmulk]

I have been dealing with plantar fasciitis after an attempt at going to the typical stiff shanked “hunting boot.” Ill leave out the brand as that is not the point.

In this journey, I have been learning a lot about feet. Exo recently had a great podcast on this subject and basically pointed out that the hunting boot industry is very much marketing and those heavy, stiff boots are actually terrible for our feet. This resonates with me as they did jack my feet up.

Anyway, for thousands of years, people walked around without fancy expensive boots. Our modern society in general has unhealthy feet with lots of pain. I’m leaning more and more toward going to zero drop minimalist type shoes and boots.

Allow our feet to function the way God made them. I don’t think we can really improve on his design.

Any other thoughts or insights into this? Are we as a culture (including the hunting world) totally doing footwear wrong?

 

[Cameron.25]

Yup Ive been wearing zero drop shoes and boots for about 5 years now. No issues with my feet, never had major issues just was always uncomfortable in regular shoes and boots, especially since my left foot is bigger. Now i cant wear regular shoes or boots if i wanted to since my feet have spread out more. Seems like its not for everyone but it works very well for me

 

[Geewhiz]

How do you propose to support your feet and ankles when carrying out half an elk over uneven and steep terrain without supportive footwear?

 

[LongWayAround]

I wear zero drop shoes for working out, running, and casual, but I'm not giving up my boots for rough terrain. One of my ankles will randomly roll sometimes and that could be catastrophic without supportive boots, especially under a heavy load.

I'm on my feet everyday and don't have any reason to believe that my feet have been negatively impacted by wearing boots.

I love the exo podcast and listen frequently, including the episode about footwear. One thing that I have noticed is that Mark tends to take a more nuanced stance, whereas Steve tends to present a more convicted stance.

 

[Cameron.25]

How do you propose to support your feet and ankles when carrying out half an elk over uneven and steep terrain without supportive footwear?

I've never had an issue, my feet and ankles are strong i guess. I havent rolled an ankle since i was kid. I wear russel moccasins or vivobarefoots year round. I regularly run 5+ miles on pavement with shoes that are less than 1/4" thick on the soles too, but YMMV.. I only hunt the backcountry too, i often pack in 5-12 miles in very rugged stuff like hells canyon and the eagle caps

 

[jpmulk]

How do you propose to support your feet and ankles when carrying out half an elk over uneven and steep terrain without supportive footwear?

Check out the exo podcast.

How do you propose to support your feet and ankles when carrying out half an elk over uneven and steep terrain without supportive footwear?

https://soundcloud.com/huntbackcountry%2F466-the-best-hunting-boot-isnt-what-you-think-it-is-the-experience-project

 

[jpmulk]

Check out the exo podcast.

https://soundcloud.com/huntbackcountry%2F466-the-best-hunting-boot-isnt-what-you-think-it-is-the-experience-project

Here is the podcast. It explains better than me

 

[dreamingWest]

I train in and wear daily zero drop and minimalist style shoes. Even my backpack hikes I'll wear my Altra Lone Peaks or similar with 60# or less.

But put me in the mountains packing elk and I'll gladly take my Crispi Nevada. Your feet and ankles will be adequately developed, but then the added protection and support of the boots will make you feel unstoppable. My 2 cents.

I'll listen to the podcast. I like the Exo guys.

 

[yfarm]

My first elk hunt was up and down steep slopes in dark timber. I was wearing Russell birdshooters with Huez soles, no heel counters. Feet ached every night, required far more attention to foot placement and moving than the following year wearing a Chippewa US made vibram lug soled unlined leather boot with heel counters but got a heel blister and finished the hunt wearing north face trail shoes which worked great even sidehilling. Next year made the leap to Lathrop Mountain hunter, great control and support with absolutely no ground feel. Now have cycled back to a more flexible hiking style boot, flex 2 or so. Have pair of Russell Big Cambrios, leather lined, heel counters with 1/4” lift may try this year, were designed as an elk boot. Am going scouting in a couple of weeks for a Colorado sheep hunt and will use a pr of Aku Selvaticas I picked up.

 

[HighUintas]

How do you propose to support your feet and ankles when carrying out half an elk over uneven and steep terrain without supportive footwear?

Strengthen your feet and ankles. It takes a long time to work into minimal shoes/boots if you're not used to them.

I've been running and hiking in minimal shoes for years and have no issues. My ankles are extremely flexible and strong which allows me to roll the hell out of my ankle when running or packing and don't suffer more than brief pain (like 5 minutes max). This could partly be genetics, but since I've been using minimal shoes I find that I'm far less susceptible to actual injury when rolling an ankle and during heavy running training schedules.

I can also run regularly in shoes that are so worn out no person who subscribes to the conventional running shoe wisdom would use them. The rubber on the sole is completely worn through in areas, the upper starts tearing away from the midsole. I'll literally run in a pair of shoes until they start falling apart

 

[Cameron.25]

I realize i might be an outlier cause so many people seemingly cant pack weight with the zero drop without issues, but they dont make my feet sore. I do also see people online constantly chasing their tail looking for the perfect mountaineering boots and spending thousands it seems trying multiple pairs but never being happy with their boots so idk. I just sweat alot and have to mitigate that issue

 

[P Carter]

I don't know that we can definitively say whether "we're doing it wrong" or "we're doing it right." I think we can say that one should not take at face value the assertion that a stiff, high, waterproof boot 1) provides "more support" than other options; 2) will keep your feet warmer than other options; or 3) is the best choice, much less "necessary," to hunt in.

To me, it's intuitive that a more flexible, closer-to-the-ground (i.e., lower stack height) and lower-top shoe or boot is less likely to result in an ankle-roll-type injury than a stiff, high-stack-height, higher-top shoe or boot. Folks assert the opposite but it just doesn't make sense to me. I had a similar "journey" to what Steve expresses in hte podcast - I had these clodhoppers for hunting that were expensive, uncomfortable, noisy, and cold. I realized that I was running in the mountains, including through snow and slush, all year round, with a non-waterproof trail shoe that was lighter, warmer, had better traction, and was much more comfortable. And my runs would greatly exceed the per-day mileage I'd put on hunting. So I wore trail running shoes hunting and haven't looked back. There's a lot of nuance there, and for something like a sheep hunt I'd probably have to reexamine what I'm doing (though people run races, like Hardrock, in trail shoes without issue, so it might still work). But overall, for most use cases, to me there has to be pretty definitive proof of superiority to go with a $400 or $600, heavy, single-use (i.e., only hunting) boot over a $100-$150 pair of trail running shoes that I already cover 1,000+ miles per year in and that I use for multiple purposes. (Obviously, I don't run 1,000+ miles in the same pair...the point is just that I use them constantly and know what work for my feet.)

 

[HighUintas]

Plus, if you start hunting in those vivo trackers ... Your stalking skills are immediately improved. They're the quietest and closest things to moccasins I've hunted in. They're unfortunately lacking in water resistance compared to a taller goretex boot

 

[HighUintas]

I don't know that we can definitively say whether "we're doing it wrong" or "we're doing it right." I think we can say that one should not take at face value the assertion that a stiff, high, waterproof boot 1) provides "more support" than other options; 2) will keep your feet warmer than other options; or 3) is the best choice, much less "necessary," to hunt in.

To me, it's intuitive that a more flexible, closer-to-the-ground (i.e., lower stack height) and lower-top shoe or boot is less likely to result in an ankle-roll-type injury than a stiff, high-stack-height, higher-top shoe or boot. Folks assert the opposite but it just doesn't make sense to me. I had a similar "journey" to what Steve expresses in hte podcast - I had these clodhoppers for hunting that were expensive, uncomfortable, noisy, and cold. I realized that I was running in the mountains, including through snow and slush, all year round, with a non-waterproof trail shoe that was lighter, warmer, had better traction, and was much more comfortable. And my runs would greatly exceed the per-day mileage I'd put on hunting. So I wore trail running shoes hunting and haven't looked back. There's a lot of nuance there, and for something like a sheep hunt I'd probably have to reexamine what I'm doing (though people run races, like Hardrock, in trail shoes without issue, so it migth still work). But overall, for most use cases, to me thhas to be pretty definitive proof of superiority to go with a $400 or $600, heavy, single-use (i.e., only hunting) boot over a $100-$150 pair of trail running shoes that I already cover 1,000+ miles per year in and that I use for multiple purposes. (Obviously, I don't run 1,000+ miles in the same pair...the point is just that I use them constantly and know what work for my feet.)

100% agree. I wouldn't hesitate one but to do a sheep hunt in minimal running shoes. I've run countless peaks, scrambling, running 6 min miles down technical mountain trails that most people can't hike without having to call SAR in minimal running shoes and feel more confident in those than conventional running shoes.

The only reason I don't use runners for hunting in October is the icy creeks I have to cross and ye need to keep dry feet in the cold.

 

[MuleyFever]

Anyway, for thousands of years, people walked around without fancy expensive boots.

Allow our feet to function the way God made them. I don’t think we can really improve on his design.

I have to wonder when I read stuff like this sometimes. Our ancestors did not have a lot of things we have now. That in no way means that it was ok or better. What kind of pain and discomfort did they have to endure. Our bodies are full of flaws and we use so many things to make our bodies operate better than they were "designed". Some people will benefit from certain types of footwear and some from other types.

I got up early one morning to finish packing out an elk and forgot to put my boots on. I had put on my cross trainers while I got ready and then just started hiking out. I didnt even realize it until I was a few miles in. I made the trip out without any issue but is was mild terrain. Got me thinking about if I really need a stiff heavy boot.

 

[jpmulk]

Sounds like at this point, I just need to slowly transition in zeros. I am currently wearing altras. I’m interested in the Vivo boots

 

[IBen]

I used to use a flexible approach shoe for sheep hunting but there is a reason high altitude animals are hoofed. Stiffness increases performance in the mountains both going up and down. That being said your feet should be strong enough to handle anything you through at them.

 

[jpmulk]

I have to wonder when I read stuff like this sometimes. Our ancestors did not have a lot of things we have now. That in no way means that it was ok or better. What kind of pain and discomfort did they have to endure. Our bodies are full of flaws and we use so many things to make our bodies operate better than they were "designed". Some people will benefit from certain types of footwear and some from other types.

I got up early one morning to finish packing out an elk and forgot to put my boots on. I had put on my cross trainers while I got ready and then just started hiking out. I didnt even realize it until I was a few miles in. I made the trip out without any issue but is was mild terrain. Got me thinking about if I really need a stiff heavy boot.

I havent checked the validity of this, but I read one article that discussed how third world countries don’t have the same issues with their feet that modern societies do. Makes sense to me

 

[TaperPin]

I have been dealing with plantar fasciitis after an attempt at going to the typical stiff shanked “hunting boot.” Ill leave out the brand as that is not the point.

In this journey, I have been learning a lot about feet. Exo recently had a great podcast on this subject and basically pointed out that the hunting boot industry is very much marketing and those heavy, stiff boots are actually terrible for our feet. This resonates with me as they did jack my feet up.

Anyway, for thousands of years, people walked around without fancy expensive boots. Our modern society in general has unhealthy feet with lots of pain. I’m leaning more and more toward going to zero drop minimalist type shoes and boots.

Allow our feet to function the way God made them. I don’t think we can really improve on his design.

Any other thoughts or insights into this? Are we as a culture (including the hunting world) totally doing footwear wrong?

I always wore what you are calling a heavy shank boot in residential framing and general construction for three decades, and others wore everything from tennis shoes to light boots to boots like mine.

Working alongside the same guys for a decade before I changed careers was telling. One of the biggest fans of light weight boots has turned his ankles enough times on small rocks and uneven ground that it has permanently stretched things out and his ankles hurt all the time. I watched his most serious injury and it was only a slight side hill where he put his foot down wrong - my boots wouldn’t even allow that injury on that slope. That was the most obvious case, but it happens all the time in construction.

Not only would I never work or hunt in flimsy boots, seeing with my own eyes dozens of times what injuries come from flimsy shoes and boots, I find it laughable that someone would suggest otherwise. Being a contrarian seems to be the path many take for more clicks, views, and traffic - it doesn’t make it true.

A good supportive arch requires some time for a foot to get used to it - some people get rid of their boots (or hockey skates) too quickly or push it too hard. The decade before construction I lived 7 days a week in Whites boots - the most comfortable boots ever with a significant stiff arch.

I’ve also had some PF issues and consulted with an orthopedic surgeon who was also a dedicated hunter. His take was my stiff firefighting boots or stiff hunting boots had nothing to do with it, although a stiff boot is painful since it puts more support pressure on the arch. His best guess is I would eventually need surgery when I was tired of the pain, but to find ways to exercise that don’t hurt and in some cases it will clear up eventually. At least in my case I’m glad he didn’t say it was absolutely needed - inactivity and extra weight made it flare up the most, and with moderate exercise it did eventually clear up completely and never bothered me again. I’m probably lucky in that regard, but it’s alway in the back of my head it could come back any time - so far a number of decades have passed.

Hopefully your arches will get back to normal without anything lingering long term that requires going under the knife.

 

[IBen]

Jumping rope barefoot on hard surface will strengthen the arch as will any plyometric drills (single leg especially) Sled pushes and barefoot sprinting.