Bolt Action, hard to eject?

[Jack321]

I've always used grease rather than oil on the cocking ramps. Not sure how big of a difference that makes.

Any cock on open 90 degree bolt that takes more effort to cock than a 70 degree tikka is suspect to me. Seems like there's something wrong with the ignition system if it takes a lot of effort to cock without a fired case gripping the chamber.

Sorry, let me clarify, this was uncocking the bolt handle. So lifting it up.

While I realize it wasnt the safest. I did load up some rounds, filled the mag up and ejected them, and they were "fine."

Again, not as smooth or as easy as my other "refined" guns.

But even still, I obviously didnt fire them. It was when I was unloading fired shells was when it was REALLY tough.

 

[wind gypsy]

Sorry, let me clarify, this was uncocking the bolt handle. So lifting it up.

While I realize it wasnt the safest. I did load up some rounds, filled the mag up and ejected them, and they were "fine."

Again, not as smooth or as easy as my other "refined" guns.

But even still, I obviously didnt fire them. It was when I was unloading fired shells was when it was REALLY tough.

What i'm saying is after the firing pin drops, it is typically re-cocked during the bolt lift portion. I'm not a savage guy so not 100% sure they are all cock on open as some actions cock on bolt close partially or fully as well but most are on open.

By dry firing and feeling bolt lift, you get a feel for how much of the resistance comes from compressing the firing pin spring again (cocking) vs the resistance from extracting a fired case from the chamber.

Tough extraction from a rough chamber, over pressure event, or just weak extraction is different from cocking effort.

 

[Jack321]

What i'm saying is after the firing pin drops, it is typically re-cocked during the bolt lift portion. I'm not a savage guy so not 100% sure they are all cock on open as some actions cock on bolt close partially or fully as well but most are on open.

By dry firing and feeling bolt lift, you get a feel for how much of the resistance comes from compressing the firing pin spring again (cocking) vs the resistance from extracting a fired case from the chamber.

Tough extraction from a rough chamber, over pressure event, or just weak extraction is different from cocking effort.

It does recock when the bolt is lifted up.

When I dry fire, its the same as when i unload it without firing.

 

[Kyguy]

Some Axis actions have notoriously hard bolt lift. It's a combination of the heavy firing pin springs, friction on the washer between them, and the abutments in the action for the locking lugs not being cut concentrically. Grease the cocking cam and the back of the locking lugs... SPARINGLY. You can order a bolt lift kit from Desh Industries to help make it easier. If it's really bad or you're willing to invest some money in making it much better, SharpShooter Supply does an action job on the Axis for $175 and it makes it a completely different rifle. Now, having had 3 Axis rifle done this past summer.... even though it literally turns it into a different rifle, I wouldn't do it again. Spend $500 on an Axis, $225 on an action job (shipping will be at least $50)... sell it and buy a Tikka or get a Savage 110, a much better rifle than the Axis in all ways.

 

[Jack321]

Some Axis actions have notoriously hard bolt lift. It's a combination of the heavy firing pin springs, friction on the washer between them, and the abutments in the action for the locking lugs not being cut concentrically. Grease the cocking cam and the back of the locking lugs... SPARINGLY. You can order a bolt lift kit from Desh Industries to help make it easier. If it's really bad or you're willing to invest some money in making it much better, SharpShooter Supply does an action job on the Axis for $175 and it makes it a completely different rifle. Now, having had 3 Axis rifle done this past summer.... even though it literally turns it into a different rifle, I wouldn't do it again. Spend $500 on an Axis, $225 on an action job (shipping will be at least $50)... sell it and buy a Tikka or get a Savage 110, a much better rifle than the Axis in all ways.

THIS is what I was looking for! Thank you!

I've now watched probably 5-6 YouTube videos on the Desh Industries lift kit, including the ones Desh himself does. Everytime I see someone explain their original bolt being tough to open. It looks & sounds like my sons 350 Legend.

I probably won't send it to Sharp Shooter. I only paid $150 for the gun, but I can pay $25 for the lift kit and take 5 min to do it myself.

I'm still going to shoot it on Thursday and see if its any better after a cleaning. But the Bolt Lift Kit may be the answer I'm looking for.

This will be now the 3rd time I've tinkered with this gun to make it better for my son.

God I'm so grateful to you guys for your help and also YouTube guys who can show how to troubleshoot problems!

•Removed 1 inch spacer in butt stock and jerry-rigged the recoil pad to make it a "youth/compact" butt stock.

•Installed M*Carbo trigger kit

•(Will be) installing this bolt lift kit after figuring out what internal parts my bolt has.

 

[coast range]

I may have missed it but did you try another ammo? I’m just thinking over pressure loads

 

[7RemMag]

It was my first time sighting it in. Gun wasnt "cleaned" before using. Ive never had to clean em before sighting in, didnt notice anything off or wet or cosmoline when I pulled the stock to lighten the trigger pull so I left it as is.

Little bit off topic here, but just a word of advice..ALWAYS at least run a patch or two through the barrel of a factory new rifle prior to shooting. I’ve seen rifles that the patch came out nearly perfectly clean, and I’ve seen rifles that had two patches ran down the tube and the patch still was covered in nasty oil and metal shavings. Every Savage Axis I ever saw the barrel was covered in contaminants. I don’t know what “experts” say… Perhaps it doesn’t matter. However, I can’t imagine blowing metal shavings through your barrel doing it any good.

As for your problems, I’d lean towards some kind of manufacturing defect. It’s pretty “normal” of most factory produced rifles regardless of brand. You could try to tackle it yourself, but in my experience Savage Customer Service is pretty decent.

 

[Jack321]

I may have missed it but did you try another ammo? I’m just thinking over pressure loads

I had 3 types of factory ammo with me when I was initially sighting it in. I don't recall one type of ammo being "easier" than another. But I also wasn't specifically paying attention.

I was more focused on sighting it in & seeing which brand grouped best.

This time around I will have 5 brands. (Thurs I'm sighting in 2 other rifles, so I'll bring this 350L to test out.)

 

[Thegman]

I think there's some unclear communication with terms you're (OP) using so it's hard to tell what exactly you're doing with the rifle, and some of what you're doing (cycling ammo through the rifle) probably won't tell you much of anything with respect to the issue you're having (heavy bolt lift).

What @wind gypsy is saying to do is the best way to start.

Compare these three things:

1. Force required to repeatedly open the bolt -without- pulling the trigger.

This is the frictional forces between the bolt body and the rifle’s action.

2. Force required to to repeatedly open the bolt -with- pulling the trigger each time.

This is the frictional forces in #1 + the force required for the bolt lift compressing the firing pin spring + increased frictional forces from torque on the bolt body against the action + increased cam surface friction, etc.

3. Force required to lift the bolt after firing a round.

This is #2 + frictional forces between the bolt face and cartridge case head + increased cam surface friction during primary extraction of the cartridge case.

Comparative information on 1, 2 and 3 are really needed to diagnose anything...otherwise it's all mostly guessing.

 

[Jack321]

I think there's some unclear communication with terms you're (OP) using so it's hard to tell what exactly you're doing with the rifle, and some of what you're doing (cycling ammo through the rifle) probably won't tell you much of anything with respect to the issue you're having (heavy bolt lift).

What @wind gypsy is saying to do is the best way to start.

Compare these three things:

1. Force required to repeatedly open the bolt -without- pulling the trigger.

This is the frictional forces between the bolt body and the rifle’s action.

2. Force required to to repeatedly open the bolt -with- pulling the trigger each time.

This is the frictional forces in #1 + the force required for the bolt lift compressing the firing pin spring + increased frictional forces from torque on the bolt body against the action + increased cam surface friction, etc.

3. Force required to lift the bolt after firing a round.

This is #2 + frictional forces between the bolt face and cartridge case head + increased cam surface friction during primary extraction of the cartridge case.

Comparative information on 1, 2 and 3 are really needed to diagnose anything...otherwise it's all mostly guessing.

To answer #1 & #2--the same amount of force is needed for both of these.

For #3--it required a lot of force after firing a round to open the bolt.


I did order a Desh Bolt Lift Kit. Because even though it is easier unloaded and unloaded + pulling the trigger. All 3 require more force than my Tikkas, Rem 700 and my Rugers.

Not trying to be confusing, but sorry if I am.

 

[wind gypsy]

To answer #1 & #2--the same amount of force is needed for both of these.

That sir, is effed. No way should friction of bolt body and lugs completely overwhelm an increase in effort associated with to cocking the firing pin. I'd send it back to Savage.

For #3--it required a lot of force after firing a round to open the bolt.

If something is machined wonky enough for 1 and 2 above to require the same amount of effort, good chance it is just further bound up from the pressure of a fired round pushing it further into that wonky position.

 

[Team4LongGun]

Lots of good help and recommendations provided here, love that about this place!

Didn't see any pics of brass or headstamps as requested, that would provide vital info for narrowing things down.
OP, you are getting several questions and ideas, try and keep up as there are some very dialed in dudes on here who can narrow down the issue, which will help you decide which route to take. I wouldn't buy anything until I figured out the culprit, as it may need a trip back to savage-which is free.

 

[Jack321]

That sir, is effed. No way should friction of bolt body and lugs completely overwhelm an increase in effort associated with to cocking the firing pin. I'd send it back to Savage.

If something is machined wonky enough for 1 and 2 above to require the same amount of effort, good chance it is just further bound up from the pressure of a fired round pushing it further into that wonky position.

When I say "same amount of pressure to lift up" I mean its not unbearable like after I fired a round.

Unfortunately I do not have a trigger pull gauge to say specifically how much lbs are needed for each, lol! Im totally basing thiss off of "feel."

 

[Jack321]

Lots of good help and recommendations provided here, love that about this place!

Didn't see any pics of brass or headstamps as requested, that would provide vital info for narrowing things down.
OP, you are getting several questions and ideas, try and keep up as there are some very dialed in dudes on here who can narrow down the issue, which will help you decide which route to take. I wouldn't buy anything until I figured out the culprit, as it may need a trip back to savage-which is free.

Shooting it on Thursday. Will post pics of casings after.

 

[Jack321]

Ok--just tried it in a vice.

#1. Is easiest to open bolt. With OUT dry firing. But still tougher than my other rifles and tougher than I remember with my former Axis'. Now its also a lefty, and I shoot right (my son shoots left) and am use to right handed guns. But also racked it in the vice.

#2 There is def more tension to open the bolt after dry firing.

#3. Will report back on Thurs night after time at the range and see if its still hard after firing. Also will post pics of casings and primers.

 

[TheHammer]

My money is on a reaming issue. Is there any signs of friction on the fired brass on the neck? Being pretty familiar with savages, this I have seen before on the 350L axis rifles.

 

[chancey]

I had this issue on one box of Hornady Superformance .270, rifle was an older x bolt with lots of rounds through it without issue. Tried a different ammo and it was fine. I think that lot was loaded to hot for some reason.

 

[Bucks&Bulls]

For what’s it worth I have Savage Axis in 30-06 and it was the same way. I had to hold the rifle down on my led sled to lift the bolt up when I first got it. It took that much force. I was going to contact Savage but decided to put two boxes of ammo through it to see if helped and it did. It’s fine now with factory ammo and reloads. I also cleaned the bolt really good after those two boxes.