Blue LocTite- Rings and Bases or No?

[Bearwhisky]

Does vibration loosen screws? Do small screws in other fields where they must not loosen use threadlocker or do they go bare?





Scope manufacturers do not want customers complaining of rings binding up erectors. Ring manufacturers do not want customers complaining of rust on screws or rings, nor of stripped screws, nor of marring on tubes. Both generally state a torque spec that will not hold scopes from slipping in rings due to that. If they will do that, I wouldn’t put so much faith in them having absolute zero movement in mounts in mind over warranty complaints.
Neither scope nor mount manufacturers pay any attention about long term zero retention, nor have any clue what is required to maintain a static zero- how would they? Do you believe there is a division at Tally or Badger that shot five thousand rounds through fifty rifles each torqued but not degreased or thread locked, and fifty rifles for five thousand rounds each degreased and with thread locker and determined which had fewer issues? Do you believe Leupold, Vortex, or Zeiss did so? Don’t listen to some guy in the internet- you could always listen to Spuhr and have a coat of oil on each screw.

Where and how do you believe the manufacturers have learned that not degreasing and thread locking works better for a zero retention?

Do you loc tite your lug nuts?


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[WCB]

Loctite the base, torque rings to spec is the way I do it. Ive read scope ring manufacturers claim that loctiting the rings has a negative impact on their ability to hold scope steady


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Yeah used to work for a Optics and Optics accessory company. We sold blue Loctite in scope mounting kits. Simply not true.

I have some older stuff I mounted that are just torqued to spec and have had no issues. For the past 8 or 9 years I Loctite every thing. As said by some one else... Degrease/clean, Loctite, and torque to correct specs.

 

[Bearwhisky]

Yea, I’m sure some do. I would say its dependent on how the rings are designed too. With a top half, bottom half style ring, the halves are wrapped around the cylinder (scope tube). When torqued, the two halves are applying pressure away from each other, which holds the threads in place because they are receiving constant friction against each other. Its essentially the same concept as a locking washer, which works by applying outwards pressure.


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[fish impaler]

Install friction coefficient is lower with thread locker as compared to dry, so more of your applied torque goes into bolt tension, which is what you want to prevent slip. This is true for every threaded fastener no matter who designed or cut the threads, or the particular materials involved. More bolt tension will always increase the force required for slip to occur. Once cured the thread locker reduces clearances between the male and female threads, lessening susceptibility to loosening due to shock or vibration. Again, true of any/every threaded interface.

 

[Formidilosus]

Do you loc tite your lug nuts?

We’ll ignore for now that lug nuts do come loose, even when properly torqued, and just go with the size, shape, materials, and design scope ring screws and mounts are the same as lug nuts…?

You didn’t answer the question- how do you think scope and mount manufactures test their beliefs?

 

[Formidilosus]

I’m curious, how do people think that companies test and prove their products and equipment?

I’ve been to quite a few companies and manufactures facilities- some mentioned in this thread. You know what you don’t see? Pallets of ammo. Or heavily worn and used rifles/scopes/mounts. Or any test results of zero retention from mounts without thread locker and mounts with thread locker for instance. When asked you do get engineers that are happy to tell you all about theory… but no shooters. No one shooting.

It’s all very interesting.

 

[TheGDog]

Yes, every time. Only takes the littlest bit too. Be sure to wipe off excess, blueing seems to not like having that stuff sit on it.

 

[TheGDog]

I quit using liquid loctite because it's nearly impossible to remove from threads after disassembly.

Wha?..? That stuff comes off very easily. Fingernail or brass brush at worst.

 

[HighUintas]

Wha?..? That stuff comes off very easily. Fingernail or brass brush at worst.

Mine hasn't for some reason. Some will come off but a lot of it stays in the threads. I've tried brushing, soaking in acetone and other solvents and brushing, and it never fully came off.

So I gave up haha. The screws are just a little more "sticky" when tightening.

Methylene chloride, what the other guy posted from the loctite website, is in paint stripper that actually works. It's really carcinogenic though, so most paint strippers don't use it. I've got some at home, so I'll try it out

 

[TheGDog]

Screw threads? Brass brush + Goof Off.

 

[Woodrow F Call]

TLDR: If you don't want your bolts to come loose, remove oil, use loctite, and use a torque wrench if you have too.



I work with bolted joints..... a lot. From hydraulic tensioners, hydraulic wrenches, torque wrenches, bolt heaters.... al kinds of sizes from little machine screws to stud diameters of up to 8 inches. I even have a document on my desk about alloy steel bolts right now.

I don't think I'm an expert, but I have a little experience with bolted joints. I probably know more about that than I do long range shooting or even hunting.

A bolted joint relies on the threads locking due to bolt tension. That stress on the bolt (which acts like a spring) creates the force perpendicular to faces of the joint. That force is multiplied by the coefficient of friction to get the force of friction.

It's the force of tension in the bolt and the force of friction that keeps the joint together.

Bolt stretch really is the key to getting a bolted joint to hold together. A torque wrench is kind of a crude way to measure bolt stretch. It is affected by whatever goop you put on the threads.

I've looked at various instructions for installation of scope rings. Most manufacturers don't even bother to specify dry, lubed or loctite (or even which one to use). That plus using cheap little plastic torque wrenches made in China isn't really a serious attempt to get a proper bolted joint. This is mitigated by that fact that most bolting actually has a range where enough bolt stretch is achieved to hold the joint together.

Loctite just fills the voids between the threads, locking the bolt/screw in place. It's especially useful on small screws and threads where getting proper bolt stretch might be a challenge due to the error in converting bolt stretch to torque (the window for getting it right is smaller).

I think the mfgs just don't want you mucking up the threads with loctite as those little machine screws just don't hold up to lots of use and abuse..... especially if they are threaded into a block of aluminum.

 

[Stu]

I ran the same bolt gun exclusively for my hunting/shooting for about 15 years. This gun was on its third barrel before I had the cash flow to allow me to purchase another center fire rifle and still actually shoot. It was a long action savage and I used a weaver rail on it. I can remember wasting a bunch of ammo trying to figure out why it wasn't holding zero and hitting targets reliably on two separate occasions. Both times, I found that the base screws had gotten loose. During that time, I owned and used a weaver torque wrench but didn't use a thread locker. I now use a thread locker.

 

[kpk]

I worked on numerous devices for military use in my previous job. Critical stuff. Everything that I worked on small screws were always loc-tited....ALWAYS.

I use one of those small pencil torches to remove screws and have never had an issue.

 

[Wapiti1]

None of your guys must own a hard mounted Shovelhead Harley. Loctite is your bestest friend. I also work in an industrial facility and we loctite the holy hell out of every bolt, nut and screw. Of course, we also use several loctite products that normal folk never see.

For the record, I just put a new mount and rings on one of my Savage 99's last night. I used a Leupold base and rings. Both had Nylok applied to all of the screws from the factory, and the instructions said to degrease everything prior to installation. So, at least someone is paying attention. Made for a very clean and secure install.

For those not aware, Nylok is a dried in place thread locker that can be pre-applied to bolts and screws.

Jeremy

 

[black dawg]

Just to pass on some info that I was given by a Rep that deals with loc tite kind of stuff,
It is important to get all of the old loc tite out of the threads, as it can slow down or stop the reaction that takes place causing it to cure. Something about needs to be directly exposed to the surface activity of the metal.

I had always just put more loc tite on bolts (that had cured loc tite in the threads), After taking a couple things apart (that I know were completely free of any other contaminants) and finding liquid loc tite in them, I make sure to get it all off before reassembly.

 

[260madman]

I use Ronsonol and squirt it over the screws and holes and the rings to remove oil from them.

This is why you should remove oil from screws. This is the first 4 I did.

 

[RS3579]

I degrease and use blue locktite on the base screws and nothing on the rings.

 

[Littleguy]

Degrease everything, torque apply blue loctite and good to go.
I have never used fingernail polish, will check it out.

 

[kit_man_duu]

Torque specs with loctite will be different as you could potentially over-torque because loctite could act as a lubricant.

 

[JohnJohnson]

I loctite scope base screws because I won't be needing to remove a base. I do not ever loctite my scope rings (ARC M10) and have never had an issue with them.