Blue Loctite Alternative??

[Shortschaf]

View attachment 732513

It is worth noting that loctite klean n prime is just

• 70% acetone (solvent/degreaser)
• 15% butane (aerosol)
• 15% propane (aerosol)
• And <1% drying agent

Any of the threadlockers mentioned in this thread would benefit from its use. But any degreaser product at all will act virtually identical to KleanNprime

I've never seen any threadlocker NOT cure on the threads. But I also have no reason to believe regular paint/nail polish won't work just fine.

They are all just a hardening polymer that sticks to stuff. If I didnt already have a bottle of 243, then paint or nail polish is quite a bit cheaper and easier to get

 

[RockAndSage]

I made the mistake of buying some of my loctites off of Amazon, and learned the hard way that there's serious fraud going on there from some sellers. I will only buy it now from places like Grainger, or Midway, or right from the Henkle website directly. In one case, it was a half-full bottle of some mix that came with a large barcode sticker over part of it that turned out to be hiding "for sale in India only" underneath.

Some of the more technical loctites are more expensive - the color is only vaguely related to the intended application. It's important to go to the Henkle website and read the information they have on a given formula - you don't want to end up having to apply heat on your ring screws to get them undone, or find out later that the variant you used just isn't doing the job.

I've got no idea what the contents of my India bottle are, other than that it's green. I'd no more trust it than a pound of powder that came half-full from India with a doctored label.

 

[journeyman713]

I made the mistake of buying some of my loctites off of Amazon, and learned the hard way that there's serious fraud going on there from some sellers. I will only buy it now from places like Grainger, or Midway, or right from the Henkle website directly. In one case, it was a half-full bottle of some mix that came with a large barcode sticker over part of it that turned out to be hiding "for sale in India only" underneath.

I've got no idea what the contents of my India bottle are, other than that it's green. I'd no more trust it than a pound of powder that came half-full from India with a doctored label.

It's hard to say for sure what that green stuff is.
Might be easier to rule out - Things it isn't...
1. Loctite
2. Beer
3. ...

Sorry you got ripped off.
Hope you at least got a good deal on it.

 

[RockAndSage]

It's hard to say for sure what that green stuff is.
Might be easier to rule out - Things it isn't...
1. Loctite
2. Beer
3. ...

Sorry you got ripped off.
Hope you at least got a good deal on it.

Lol, comes with the territory on trying to get a good deal on expensive technical stuff by getting it off of Amazon. Just glad I caught it in time. The same stuff in a much smaller package from Midway was the same price, and I got the replacement there.

 

[journeyman713]

No, that is not correct. Fingernail polish and paint pens are being used because they dry and hold better than blue Loctite. It is not unseal to pull screw out days or weeks after installing them and finding the Blue Loctite still liquid.

Then about every scope ring and screws made are, as it’s happened to lots of them. Paint pens and nail polish work regardless.

What brand / kind of paint pen are you using. Amazon has a bunch of them.

People are reading this stuff, and it's really wrong. I hate to see our readers be so misled.
There's no comparison between Loctite, and stuff you guys are talking about.
I'll try and explain better.

I recently retried from the Industrial machinery and manufacturing industry, worked with fasteners constantly, and failures. Worked with Loctite my whole career, in many applications, in different companies. Trained extensively the whole time.

Loctite is the biggest, and best, adhesives company in the world. For a reason.
It would blow your mind at the number of product's they offer, specialized for any scenario, and the science that backs it up.

To understand the application we are concerned with, 'keeping scope ring screws together' 'until you want them apart', you have to why there is a problem in the first place.

Thread mating, and clearance. The male threads are slightly smaller, than the female threads, they have to be, or they would bind up upon assembly. You know this, because when the screw is almost all the way in, it wiggles a little bit. But you snug it in, and the friction keeps it from undoing, until heat and friction take it toll, and let it loosen.

Then comes the adhesives, to help keep that loosening from happening. And they are Not all equal.
Loctite is not just an adhesive - here comes the science... Loctite also expands when drying.
Remember the clearance thing? Loctite fills up those gaps as it expands, providing additional friction and securing the screw in place. If done correctly, simply works very, very well.

The correctly part is simple.
Make sure the threads are clean and dry.
Use primer when needed, or Primerless Loctite (243).
If you have a unique application - they have a product for that, read the instructions.

 

[Formidilosus]

People are reading this stuff, and it's really wrong. I hate to see our readers be so misled.
There's no comparison between Loctite, and stuff you guys are talking about.
I'll try and explain better.

I recently retried from the Industrial machinery and manufacturing industry, worked with fasteners constantly, and failures. Worked with Loctite my whole career, in many applications, in different companies. Trained extensively the whole time.

Loctite is the biggest, and best, adhesives company in the world. For a reason.
It would blow your mind at the number of product's they offer, specialized for any scenario, and the science that backs it up.

To understand the application we are concerned with, 'keeping scope ring screws together' 'until you want them apart', you have to why there is a problem in the first place.

Thread mating, and clearance. The male threads are slightly smaller, than the female threads, they have to be, or they would bind up upon assembly. You know this, because when the screw is almost all the way in, it wiggles a little bit. But you snug it in, and the friction keeps it from undoing, until heat and friction take it toll, and let it loosen.

Then comes the adhesives, to help keep that loosening from happening. And they are Not all equal.
Loctite is not just an adhesive - here comes the science... Loctite also expands when drying.
Remember the clearance thing? Loctite fills up those gaps as it expands, providing additional friction and securing the screw in place. If done correctly, simply works very, very well.

The correctly part is simple.
Make sure the threads are clean and dry.
Use primer when needed, or Primerless Loctite (243).
If you have a unique application - they have a product for that, read the instructions.

Completely degreased, Loctite 243, more than a week after installation, still hasn’t cured.




I am not disagreeing with what you wrote on technical correctness- I am saying that seeing a couple hundred thousand rounds fired a year, loose screws are a thing and Loctite 243 helps. However, paint pen/nail polish has shown to work better than Loctite.
Three times in the last year, with two different sets of rings and one action that I assembled correctly- Loctite 243 did not cure, and a screw(s) loosened. This has happened a few times. It has never happened when using a paint pen or nail polish.
I do not particularly care why, or that a screw interface wasn’t correct, or anything else. I care that things stay tight. The paint pen and/or nail polish work better with scope ring screws, base screws, and action screws than Loctite 243.

 

[journeyman713]

Completely degreased, Loctite 243, more than a week after installation, still hasn’t cured.

View attachment 733127

It's not clear what you are showing me.

If you're pointing out the drop on the top of the screws, and the paper towel remaining wet.
Those areas will not dry in that condition, because Loctite needs it needs -
1. Absence of air to dry (such as a tight threaded area). Less than an hour.

If your threads are cleaned properly, and dry, before the 243 application, and in a tight thread, and still remained wet after time, there is a problem I've not seen. And I've been doing this a very long time.

In this case, I'd suspect - fake Loctite, such as the other poster had mentioned.

When all things are working correctly.
Here's a tip in the event you need it to dry in minutes - warm the threads up a little and let cool. A hair dryer would work well for this.

 

[Shortschaf]

The paint pen and/or nail polish work better with scope ring screws, base screws, and action screws than Loctite 243

This could be true. After all, Loctite doesn't even recommended 243 for screws smaller than 1/4" (likely just because it is stronger than needed for the low torque application)

However, I would wager if you put 10,000 assemblies together with random paint/polish products and 10,000 assemblies with blue loctite, you will have a higher rate of success with the loctite.





Pictured below, my .22 next to me with visibly uncured loctite under a scope ring screw. Applied weeks ago -- It's never going to cure there, nor do I expect it to. It doesn't cure in open air.

As to why yours didn't cure in the threads? Could be a number of things, so I personally would not abandon something so well proven

 

[BBob]

I've never seen any threadlocker NOT cure on the threads.

Same. Probably have 40+ years using all flavors of the stuff for all sorts of purposes. I wonder how so many people manage to fuque simple stuff up so easily???

 

[ChrisAU]

I’ve always used purple 222 on scope rings and it most definitely dries. Not sure why we’d use something the manufacturer says not to use? I do have blue but reserve it for action screws.

 

[Formidilosus]

It's not clear what you are showing me.

Two of the four screws the Loctite had not cured at all from bottom to top of the threads.

If you're pointing out the drop on the top of the screws, and the paper towel remaining wet.
Those areas will not dry in that condition, because Loctite needs it needs -
1. Absence of air to dry (such as a tight threaded area). Less than an hour.

I’m aware.

If your threads are cleaned properly, and dry, before the 243 application, and in a tight thread, and still remained wet after time, there is a problem I've not seen. And I've been doing this a very long time.

In this case, I'd suspect - fake Loctite, such as the other poster had mentioned.

Not fake.

This could be true. After all, Loctite doesn't even recommended 243 for screws smaller than 1/4" (likely just because it is stronger than needed for the low torque application)

However, I would wager if you put 10,000 assemblies together with random paint/polish products and 10,000 assemblies with blue loctite, you will have a higher rate of success with the loctite.

Hmm.

Same. Probably have 40+ years using all flavors of the stuff for all sorts of purposes. I wonder how so many people manage to fuque simple stuff up so easily???

No doubt I that I and others are incapable of degreasing and putting a drop of blue liquid on a screw. I’m sure.

 

[Formidilosus]

@journeyman713, @Shortschaf, @BBob


Being that I am obviously wrong, and to one incompetent- how many rifle rounds do you personally fire on average a year? How many rounds do you directly see where you have control o the rifles and are responsible for determining issue and fixing them?

 

[realunlucky]

@journeyman713, @Shortschaf, @BBob


Being that I am obviously wrong, and to one incompetent- how many rifle rounds do you personally fire on average a year? How many rounds do you directly see where you have control o the rifles and are responsible for determining issue and fixing them?

Screws coming loose has much broader data points than scopes and rifles, I'm sure even you can accept that.





Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

 

[Coopsdaddy]

Would be an easy YouTube video to make in a few minutes.
Get 222,243,nail polish and paint pen and try it out on ring size screws.
Seems the most logical thing is using new fresh products no mater what you use.
Not the old loctite that’s been in your garage for 8 years or the 4 year old toenail polish your wife don’t like.

 

[Kurts86]

For what it’s worth I’ve never seen loctite 242/3 not cure but if you read the technical data sheets the age and storage requirements are pretty tight. Basically Henkel says it’s only good for 2 years from the date of manufacture and if it has never been stored below 46 degrees F and above 82 degrees F. I would say that 90% of personal loctite thread locker is compromised per the manufacturer instructions.

I’ve professionally worked with Henkel a lot, I personally tested alternative supplier and engineering approvals for replacement of blue loctite 242 and I’ve used their 2 part and hot melt adhesives in robotic glue cells I’ve installed. Loctite as mentioned has a technical adhesive solution for nearly any application but in my opinion is that 242/243 have been equaled by cheaper competitors and beaten in some applications by Vibra-Tite.

I’ve personally switched from Loctite 242/3 to Vibra-Tite 122 and Vibra-Tite VC3 for scope ring mountings. They are a bit more oil tolerant and marginally faster setting depending on the base metal from what I’ve seen making them more fool proof consumer products.

 

[Formidilosus]

Screws coming loose has much broader data points than scopes and rifles, I'm sure even you can accept that.

Yes, but that isn’t the issue. It’s a stereotypical “engineer” issue- “the “x” says it should, therefor I refuse to understand that what is actually happening in real life may not match”.

At no point have I said loctite is bad and shouldn’t be used- if I have, can you please point it out? I have said that paint pen and fingernail polish is showing- through a not inconsiderable amount of actual shooting and field use; to be better at this specific task.

 

[david2duck]

I have no where near the amount of guns/scopes/rings put together as some of you guys but I have 100% taking a scope off and had loctite 243 not be cured from the top to the bottom of the screw. No experience with paint pens yet but I’ll definitely give it a try.

For what it’s worth I’ve never seen loctite 242/3 not cure but if you read the technical data sheets the age and storage requirements are pretty tight. Basically Henkel says it’s only good for 2 years from the date of manufacture and if it has never been stored below 46 degrees F and above 82 degrees F. I would say that 90% of personal loctite thread locker is compromised per the manufacturer instructions.

Not saying this info is false but if true then not one person I know has loctite that’s worth a crap. It gets above or below those temps in shipping.

 

[Shortschaf]

Being that I am obviously wrong, and to one incompetent- how many rifle rounds do you personally fire on average a year? How many rounds do you directly see where you have control o the rifles and are responsible for determining issue and fixing them?

I echo @realunlucky 's reply here



To clarify, the word "better" is all I take exception to. I don't doubt paint/polish works in the application. People have been using nail polish for decades as a threadlocker.

I just don't see three cases of finding liquid loctite as unquestionable proof that paint/polish is superior.

You stated yourself that you did not look for the root cause. I get that, you just want screws to stay tight and shoot. You used paint, it worked, and moved on. But there is no proof to support the fact that your loctite actually failed to do what it was designed to do

The paint pen and/or nail polish work better with scope ring screws, base screws, and action screws than Loctite 243.

TLDR If paint/polish worked BETTER, we would be using it on our aircraft engines. They happen to have hundreds of 1/4-28 screws -- and they get blue Loctite

 

[Kurts86]

I have no where near the amount of guns/scopes/rings put together as some of you guys but I have 100% taking a scope off and had loctite 243 not be cured from the top to the bottom of the screw. No experience with paint pens yet but I’ll definitely give it a try.



Not saying this info is false but if true then not one person I know has loctite that’s worth a crap. It gets above or below those temps in shipping.

https://datasheets.tdx.henkel.com/LOCTITE-242-en_GL.pdf

Here is the spec sheet. Read page 3.

I no less than 4 containers of “bad” that still work fine but adhesives are finicky things.

 

[Formidilosus]

I just don't see three cases of finding liquid loctite as unquestionable proof that paint/polish is superior.

Because isn’t based on three cases- it’s based on hundreds of thousands of rounds a year, every year. In June alone I shot and watched shot more than 30,000 rifle rounds from less than 30 people. And it was actually two instances in June alone- as well as one in late May, and I forgot about two last August/September.

Particularly when the common denominator could be something so simple as using the same bottle of expired/improperly stored loctite...

It was not the same bottle, nor even in the same states. But keep grasping at straws. It could never be that maybe in actual shooting, things don’t always work the way the book says…?

Hence why I asked you how many rounds you are shooting year, because you are adamant that I an wrong- and it couldn’t be something as simple as you not shooting enough to see the same issues…