Bloodshot Meat

[Chris_in_Idaho]

I'm a very new hunter, so pardon my ignorance. My one hunting rifle happens to be a .375 H&H which I chose in part for nostalgia...
I have now taken my first two whitetails with it and I have some questions.

First, for some background, I have always read that bloodshot meat is a product of hitting bone, or very high impact velocity. Proponents of slow rounds like 45-70 and 35Rem always point out how you can "eat right up to the hole" and how they always destroy less meat than a .243. So, part of my .375 decision was the ability to pack plenty of power for Elk but at moderate velocity.

Ok, so my first whitetail seemed to follow this logic. It was broadside, just slightly angled away. The entrance was just behind the shoulder right through the ribs. The exit hit the off side shoulder. Obviously the off shoulder was wasted, but the entrance side had very little damage, it looked like a 2 inch hole saw went through, very cleanly. This was with a factory 270gr round nose, either a Rem Core Lokt or a Federal Power Shok (can't remember which).

Fast forward to this season and I have hand loaded 260gr Nosler Accubonds over 70gr of Reloder 15. This is just above the starting load and should be giving 2600 or so fps at the muzzle. Very modest.
The doe was at 197 yards and angling away at 45 degrees. I would have preferred to wait for perfect broadside but she was spooking and about to go out of sight over a rise. I held as far back as I could without hitting guts to make up for the angle. The bullet entered the 7th rib on the left side and exited just in front of the shoulder on the right side. I was very happy with my shot placement, managing to hit both lungs and miss both shoulders.

Then we skinned it....

The entrance blew a window out of 4 ribs and even though it didn't touch the shoulder, the outer layer of meat covering the shoulder was completely bloodshot. That was the entrance side. The lungs were of course a red smoothie. The exit side was actually less damaged. There was bloodshot around the front of the shoulder but not as much and it was easier to trim away.

So why, with a low impact velocity of 2300 or so, did the bullet hit the ribs so hard to bloodshot a layer over the entire shoulder?

Is the 260 Accubond a super explosive bullet?

Is it because of the angle so the bullet hit multiple ribs?

I'm a bit confused.

 

[Rifles And More]

I really have no answer - my best guess is that that is a lot of force (energy) for a whitetail-sized creature.

I had a Ruger No 1 375 H&H once upon a time, a beautiful gun with great nostalgia. Shot a coyote while deer hunting - total carnage on a scale I have never seen.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Big gun, little animal. I would say wait for broadside shots and stay away from the shoulder. I know guys aim for the shoulder but I just don’t understand that philosophy.

 

[Whhood]

Gravity. The blood drained to the shoulder. Most of it should have been able to be rinsed off. I age mine in a cooler of ice for a week and most of the blood drains out. Top off the ice and drain the water out everyday. Some guys do the same thing but leave the drain plug open the whole time.

 

[BDRam16]

Usually bloodshot meat is pretty easy to clean up everywhere other than rib flank meat. It’s just so thin it’s hard to clean that minuscule amount up properly so I’ll end up chucking any of that. Anything else should clean up perfectly with a sharp fillet knife.

As far as why, with that shot angle and caliber I bet she had one hell of a cavitation wound blow through her. I bet with all that pressure and expansion she busted damn near every capillary on her chest wall.

 

[Vern400]

I'm a very new hunter, so pardon my ignorance. My one hunting rifle happens to be a .375 H&H which I chose in part for nostalgia...
I have now taken my first two whitetails with it and I have some questions.

First, for some background, I have always read that bloodshot meat is a product of hitting bone, or very high impact velocity. Proponents of slow rounds like 45-70 and 35Rem always point out how you can "eat right up to the hole" and how they always destroy less meat than a .243. So, part of my .375 decision was the ability to pack plenty of power for Elk but at moderate velocity.

Ok, so my first whitetail seemed to follow this logic. It was broadside, just slightly angled away. The entrance was just behind the shoulder right through the ribs. The exit hit the off side shoulder. Obviously the off shoulder was wasted, but the entrance side had very little damage, it looked like a 2 inch hole saw went through, very cleanly. This was with a factory 270gr round nose, either a Rem Core Lokt or a Federal Power Shok (can't remember which).

Fast forward to this season and I have hand loaded 260gr Nosler Accubonds over 70gr of Reloder 15. This is just above the starting load and should be giving 2600 or so fps at the muzzle. Very modest.
The doe was at 197 yards and angling away at 45 degrees. I would have preferred to wait for perfect broadside but she was spooking and about to go out of sight over a rise. I held as far back as I could without hitting guts to make up for the angle. The bullet entered the 7th rib on the left side and exited just in front of the shoulder on the right side. I was very happy with my shot placement, managing to hit both lungs and miss both shoulders.

Then we skinned it....

The entrance blew a window out of 4 ribs and even though it didn't touch the shoulder, the outer layer of meat covering the shoulder was completely bloodshot. That was the entrance side. The lungs were of course a red smoothie. The exit side was actually less damaged. There was bloodshot around the front of the shoulder but not as much and it was easier to trim away.

So why, with a low impact velocity of 2300 or so, did the bullet hit the ribs so hard to bloodshot a layer over the entire shoulder?

Is the 260 Accubond a super explosive bullet?

Is it because of the angle so the bullet hit multiple ribs?

I'm a bit confused.

That's pretty normal. Hitting a couple of ribs at an angle is as much bone as going straight thru the thin part of a shoulder blade. Your bullet opened up and did it's job. I shot 2 deer last year with Nosler original ballistic tip 308/150gr with 2850 muzzle velocity and both shots slipped in between 2 ribs. In and out like a pencil, and both deer ran at least 100 yards. I prefer instant dirt naps. The old ones used to slip thru, or blow up. I should have known it would happen again but I loaned my rifle to a guest, and used my heavy rifle. It's what I had... I loaded some softer, more aggressive bullets and the next identical shot caused instant collapse. If you change to a harder bullet you could experience what I saw. Plus I've found if you dress the deer right when they quit kickin' there's a lot less bloodshot especially if you can rinse and cool it fast. 375 is a big hole and I don't see that you have a problem. I did quit shooting 150 core lokt because they'd leave a tennis ball size exit. Always But I'd give them to a new hunter because a little extra damage is better than coyote food 1/4 mile away.

 

[Vern400]

The pointed, open lead tipped bullets typically initiate expansion quickly. Solid copper and tipped bullets can have high velocity requirements at impact to initiate expansion. When you take advice, get it from folks who have taken a good number of animals at various ranges. Those are the ones who have seen a full picture of bullet performance. The one bullet I've seen work under the most varying conditions is a Nosler partition. I know they work from 1500 to 3000+ fps on coyotes to elk. I use a lot of Sierra SBT bullets on deer because they work on thin skinned game But if I go for tougher game like wild boar, I'm loading redline 308 loads with partitions. Again I don't know it all by any means. I doubt you have a problem. And we shouldn't use a bullet on large game just because it groups good or looks cool.

 

[PathFinder]

Bloodshot doesn't mean there's lead in that area, or that the meat is ruined. It just means that the capillaries in that area were ruptured by the force of the bullet passing through. As mentioned above, that's probably just a thin layer. Trim the surface off and it should be fine. Had to do the same on a bear today, only a thin layer was actually bloodshot.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[Antares]

Sounds like what I would expect with a .375 H&H on a small deer.

Do you have dogs? They’re good at taking care of shot up meat.

 

[Broomd]

Big gun, little animal. I would say wait for broadside shots and stay away from the shoulder. I know guys aim for the shoulder but I just don’t understand that philosophy.

I killed a bull elk last Sunday that took three shot to get down. He took a double lung hit and then one in closer to the heart. I can't remember the last time I needed more than one round to kill an animal, but that elk simply would not drop. I honestly don't think he knew he was even hit.

After giving him 15 minutes to lay down in waning light I took out the shoulder @ 205 yards, which I was loath to do. But with the nervous herd deciding to flee the meadow into the thick woods (and darkness) I had no other option. I suspected he would bolt with them. The coyotes here seek and devour everything within 8 hours. The third and last shot took out the right shoulder and into the left. He went 35 yards. Thankful for the bull.

For the OP....In the event of blood shot meat, particularly shoulders, remove them from the carcass, trim and thoroughly rinse the blood out of them and then hang. It's amazing what can be saved with some high pressure cool water and effort.

 

[tdot]

I personally moved away from Accubond's due to constant blood shot meat. Yes it can be cleaned up, and yes the animals died quickly, but I wasn't a fan. Made the switch to Hammer bullets 3 or 4 years ago and haven't looked back. A dozen plus animals and the only significant blood shot I've had involved a chest shot on a mule deer, the bullet traveled the length of the body shattered the rear femur and exited. The rear quarter was significantly bloodshot.

 

[Ucsdryder]

I killed a bull elk last Sunday that took three shot to get down. He took a double lung hit and then one in closer to the heart. I can't remember the last time I needed more than one round to kill an animal, but that elk simply would not drop. I honestly don't think he knew he was even hit.

After giving him 15 minutes to lay down in waning light I took out the shoulder @ 205 yards, which I was loath to do. But with the nervous herd deciding to flee the meadow into the thick woods (and darkness) I had no other option. I suspected he would bolt with them. The coyotes here seek and devour everything within 8 hours. The third and last shot took out the right shoulder and into the left. He went 35 yards. Thankful for the bull.

For the OP....In the event of blood shot meat, particularly shoulders, remove them from the carcass, trim and thoroughly rinse the blood out of them and then hang. It's amazing what can be saved with some high pressure cool water and effort.

What was your setup?

 

[AKredneck63]

My hornady precision hunters always blood shot rib meat doesn’t matter caliber

 

[Rich M]

Seems like anything with some serious hydrostatic shock will rupture the blood vessels. Doesn't seem to be related to where critter gets hit cause the worst ones we've had have been rib shots.

Have seen it pretty bad from 243 and 30-06 (Sierra pro hunters and nosler partitions) but not bad with 357 mag rifle and 350 Legend. Same kind of shots.

Most of what i see getting shotted up is the layers along the ribs - we don't eat that stuff. The bruised & bloodied meat in shoulders I will toss. Favorite shot is thru ribs and out shoulder - bloodied on rib side and not as bad on shoulder side.

I know guys aim for the shoulder but I just don’t understand that philosophy.

Just an FYI -

I hunt thick stuff - if the critter runs off, odd of finding it go down considerably. Shoulder shots typically anchor the animal (hogs, whitetail) right there. Most of where I hunt, can not see 50 yards. For better or worse, that habit gets carried with me wherever I go. Losing 5 +/- # of meat is a small price to pay.

 

[Broomd]

What was your setup?

+1... .308 in factory Nosler Trophy Grade (Custom Nosler partition) 165gr.

Round taken from opposite shoulder blade. Lead tip was flattened on it, but got lost in washer..

 

[Ucsdryder]

+1... .308 in factory Nosler Trophy Grade (Custom Nosler partition) 165gr.

Round taken from opposite shoulder blade. Lead tip was flattened on it, but got lost in washer..

View attachment 339538

Looks like pretty good performance from the bullet! Assuming it was inside 400 yards it’s hard to explain why elk don’t die sometimes!

Here’s the exit hole from my bull this year, I don’t see them going far when this is the exit, it was about 2”. He definitely was DRT but he died on his feet after about 50 yards.

 

[Broomd]

Agreed. That hole is hard to recover from!

I was dropping off a cooler of elk meat yesterday to my neighbor whose ranch I was hunting when I killed that bull.
I didn't know that she had watched my entire hunt out the window. She said, "that was the toughest elk I've ever seen, he would not drop." She was right!

 

[Bighorner]

I personally like a 5 pound sledge for hanging photos, any idea why I have dents in my sheetrock?

 

[SaltySailor]

Use a cannon, expect cannon sized holes/damage.

 

[Anschutz]

The .375 H&H can be a great deer round but like anything else, you need to tailor your load to the game you are chasing. For the .375H&H, this an affair best settled at the reloading bench using cast bullets. Factory .375 H&H ammo is made for elk, moose, bear, and dangerous game. Most of it is carrying well over 2000ftlbs of energy at 300 yards. Something like the Hunter's Supply 260gr Hard Cast loaded to a MV of 1750 or so will be great at killing deer to 200 yards or so and have very manageable recoil. I'll try to find some data in my Lyman Book and post it here later.

For example, this is from a 436gr .45-70 cast bullet moving at 1600ish on a small whitetail doe. This is the exit side with shoulder removed. The blood you see pooled while I was tracking her friend and washed right off.

Edited to add load data: