Bleed control - personal program

[Fatcamp]

I wasn't intending to insult your background, training or knowledge. There are just some who have posted roughly the equivalent of "I don't need to pack a TQ, as I can always just use x, y or z." The one video that I found (and may have posted) that caught my attention on this "plan to improvise" approach (again, not saying it's yours) is how it can be tough to secure an improvised TQ, especially if you need your hands for something else.

It's a good point, I think nerve damage is a significant risk with using improvised tourniquet materials. I've tried using my belt with mixed results on myself, it's not pretty.

I read a report a couple weeks ago about a trauma that arrived to us with multiple items in use. Only one occluding flow. I cannot imagine the pain that person went through having all those folks cranking on them with arterial spray coating everything.

 

[TaperPin]

Brings to mind the stories about wounded air evacs from Dien Bien Phu where the opposition used the red crosses as aiming points for heavy 50s

Growing up kids are fed by old men the false western idea that wars follow rules, the Geneva Convention, and all that sugar coating. It does make military recruiting easier as those same kids get older and the same old men send them to war. The conflicts going on around the world today barely try to hide war crimes and hardly anyone bats an eye.

 

[fwafwow]

Growing up kids are fed by old men the false western idea that wars follow rules, the Geneva Convention, and all that sugar coating. It does make military recruiting easier as those same kids get older and the same old men send them to war. The conflicts going on around the world today barely try to hide war crimes and hardly anyone bats an eye.

100% (except that I don't know that this is limited to Western views - I just haven't thought or studied about it).

Also that we were/are always the good guys, that any aggression on our part was provoked, that we were acting to "save democracy" etc. I've come to believe that most of that was and is BS, and it's not in any way limited to either* party. (*I'm not sure there are two parties, at least on many topics.)

The good news or silver lining is that I don't think kids today believe these stories the same way I did. They do have more information (albeit with more sophisticated propaganda), and at least some in their 20s I have spoken with recently are not falling for it. (And normally I'm a pessimist and skeptic, but sometimes we have to have some optimism to stay going.)

I just recently have been finding out about even some of the stories of individual "heroes" are being questioned. Like Rob O'Neill and Marcus Luttrell.

 

[Mangata]

I used a shoestring and a pencil as it was what was available at hand. Am familiar with limb perfusion requirements. This is similar to the other posts from trained individuals carrying duct tape and bandaids. I would rather have highly trained individuals improvise than an untrained person with a truckload of supplies ie finger tip compression and a tiny bandage.
Relative to the dog, upon arrival to the vet, he ligated the vessel with a single suture and then closed the wound.
Another anecdote, have used super glue when dermabond was not available in a first aid situation. Much prefer over bandages in wet environments as it seals the injury from further contamination. The goal is to close the wound after cleaning requiring approximation of the wound margins. Friend did not understand that concept and liberally applied to the open tissues. Sealed wound which then healed by granulating in which is not the desired process.

All good points for sure!
Just piggybacking off your post to clarify some of my thoughts, and you have great points as well.

Thought that I should at least detail what I use for local wound compression (and assorted other thoughts…)

My go to for initial evaluation and care is the plastic boat / tub 4x4 gauze; I take one piece and fold it to 1x1, and I am mostly using this as a non skid surface rather than absorption of blood. The boat gives me multiples which I can mop the wound for further assessment. Also can Coban the reduced size 4x4 easily as a pressure dressing.

Suture ligation of bleeders with a figure 8 or purse string is magic (especially for the scalp!!). If you have access to a suturing and splinting course which provides some access to necessary supplies post course I highly recommend investing the time.

Superglue is great for wounds that are not going to experience traction or movement (ie face better than fingers). Caveats include need to be able to approximate wound edges, and glue must be applied to a dry area. Approximate wound edges, pat dry, and liberally apply glue in layers as if painting. Also really important to copiously irrigate wound to decrease bacterial contamination as this closure does not allow body to push out contaminants/infection.

I carry in the back country;
Suture kit with a few assorted sutures
Stapler
Lidocaine with syringe & needles
Couple of boats of 4x4
Coban / tape (including duct)
Saline for irrigation
Betadine to mix with above (or chlorhexidine)
Ace wrap x 2
Alcaine (ophthalmic anesthetic)
Bacitracin
Zofran, Tylenol, ibuprofen

 

[Mangata]

Addendum;
Also additional meds that I carry are antibiotics;
Keflex to cover for cellulitis and basic UTI’s .
Augmentin for pulmonary or intra abdominal ( diverticulitis/ early appendicitis)…
Will also have baby asa for chest pain.

hopefully informative to those interested

 

[Fatcamp]

Addendum;
Also additional meds that I carry are antibiotics;
Keflex to cover for cellulitis and basic UTI’s .
Augmentin for pulmonary or intra abdominal ( diverticulitis/ early appendicitis)…
Will also have baby asa for chest pain.

hopefully informative to those interested

Where are you sourcing yours meds?

I've seen several outfits advertising stuff, but knowing who can be trusted is a whole different issue.

Same with your wound closure stuff.

 

[Mangata]

One of the benefits of being employed in the healthcare sector is the short answer…

 

[bpa556]

100% (except that I don't know that this is limited to Western views - I just haven't thought or studied about it).

Also that we were/are always the good guys, that any aggression on our part was provoked, that we were acting to "save democracy" etc. I've come to believe that most of that was and is BS, and it's not in any way limited to either* party. (*I'm not sure there are two parties, at least on many topics.)

The good news or silver lining is that I don't think kids today believe these stories the same way I did. They do have more information (albeit with more sophisticated propaganda), and at least some in their 20s I have spoken with recently are not falling for it. (And normally I'm a pessimist and skeptic, but sometimes we have to have some optimism to stay going.)

I just recently have been finding out about even some of the stories of individual "heroes" are being questioned. Like Rob O'Neill and Marcus Luttrell.

It’s not limited to western views. Human nature is, since the dawn of man, tribalism. Fighting between tribes is simply our base nature. Civilizations/countries/religions are the “new” tribes and man will continue to kill in their names until we eventually wipe each other out.

The reasons that young men do the fighting is the same today as it was 10,000 years ago (and will remain so as long as humanity exists). They’re better suited to it. Full physical ability and not-quite mature mental capacity.

They mostly know right from wrong, but the actions of war are still more of an obligation imposed by superiors than a self-realized moral obligation. This lessens the long term emotional impact of actions taken. It’s not an indictment of youth, but a recognition that youth is:

1: more physically suited the the task

2: emotionally less mature and therefore more able to overcome the emotional trauma of battle and go on to successful adulthood.

Hippies can argue, but reality exists. Your personal beliefs don’t trump human nature. Look all across the globe at who’s doing the fighting…


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[bpa556]

It’s not limited to western views. Human nature is, since the dawn of man, tribalism. Fighting between tribes is simply our base nature. Civilizations/countries/religions are the “new” tribes and man will continue to kill in their names until we eventually wipe each other out.

The reasons that young men do the fighting is the same today as it was 10,000 years ago (and will remain so as long as humanity exists). They’re better suited to it. Full physical ability and not-quite mature mental capacity.

They mostly know right from wrong, but the actions of war are still more of an obligation imposed by superiors than a self-realized moral obligation. This lessens the long term emotional impact of actions taken. It’s not an indictment of youth, but a recognition that youth is:

1: more physically suited the the task

2: emotionally less mature and therefore more able to overcome the emotional trauma of battle and go on to successful adulthood.

Hippies can argue, but reality exists. Your personal beliefs don’t trump human nature. Look all across the globe at who’s doing the fighting…


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To the OP’s question, I carry IFAK’s in my vehicles, camper and backpacks.


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[fwafwow]

It’s not limited to western views. Human nature is, since the dawn of man, tribalism. Fighting between tribes is simply our base nature. Civilizations/countries/religions are the “new” tribes and man will continue to kill in their names until we eventually wipe each other out.

The reasons that young men do the fighting is the same today as it was 10,000 years ago (and will remain so as long as humanity exists). They’re better suited to it. Full physical ability and not-quite mature mental capacity.

They mostly know right from wrong, but the actions of war are still more of an obligation imposed by superiors than a self-realized moral obligation. This lessens the long term emotional impact of actions taken. It’s not an indictment of youth, but a recognition that youth is:

1: more physically suited the the task

2: emotionally less mature and therefore more able to overcome the emotional trauma of battle and go on to successful adulthood.

Hippies can argue, but reality exists. Your personal beliefs don’t trump human nature. Look all across the globe at who’s doing the fighting…


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Thank you for this. I realize human nature is hard to overcome, but it's not impossible (at least on the margins - meaning that civilization has gone a long way to reduce the worst aspects of base human nature, but it can't eliminate some of them). I just wish that we didn't have to be convinced by propaganda (or worse) of the allege merits of the inevitable violence.

 

[isleofGough]

In several studies, improvised tourniquets work about 20% of the time. In the military, in combat zones we carried two CAT tourniquets. SAM-XT ones also work well but SOF-T are hard to apply one handed. The Norwegian military adds a piece of paracord to that to use as counter traction with your teeth for that. I teach one handed placement with ones non dominant hand, as one is generally holding pressure on the wound at the same time. Ratcheted tourniquets are "approved" but they are very slow if you cannot use the loop technique and have to slide them around the leg.